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IABoomer
Moderator
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 7353
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 Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Taken from the latest pro tip, "wait, what" in bold.
| Quote: |
193
The Call is a Weapon
Jay Greenspan
August 4th, 2009
As a Producer at Full Tilt Poker Academy, one of the great benefits of my job is being expected to keep a hand in the game and actually play some poker now and then. I need to apply the ideas and techniques that I learn every day while working with some of the best players in the world. At-the-table research is essential; that’s what I tell my wife and my boss, and so far they’re buying it.
This summer, the “research” went well. I won a $500 buy-in tournament at the Venetian and had a couple of other cashes. All-in-all, I think I played well. I’m happy to have successfully implemented some of what Allen Cunningham, Chris Ferguson and others taught me.
But that’s not to say my play was flawless. I was especially displeased with a crucial hand I played late in Day 1 of the tournament I won. I played it badly, but I think I learned from the mistake.
I was sitting with around 200,000 in my stack, and the blinds were 1,500/3,000 with a 500 ante. At the time the hand took place, I was on a downward trajectory. Two short-stacks to my left had moved in on me after a couple of steal attempts and, after 13 hours of play, I was getting tired.
Then, in early position, I saw Ah-Qs. I opened for a raise to 9,000 and was ready to call an all-in from either of the short stacks. But they folded, as did everyone else until the action reached the blinds.
The small blind had been on a heater, tripling his stack in the previous three orbits. My read on the big blind was that he was a quality player: tight, but smart and not weak. Both blinds called.
The flop was brutal: Ac-Jc-Th. I connected – no doubt about that. But it could have easily hit one of my opponents a whole lot harder. The small blind checked, and then the big blind bet out 18,000.
I tried to interpret the action: what would he bet with? I came up with a vast range. A big draw was a possibility—maybe even Kc-9c for an open-ended straight flush draw. Bottom set and two pair also seemed possible. I also thought there was a chance that he had flopped the nuts. It would be a great time bet out with the Broadway straight. That bet might force me to raise if I had two-pair or a set. I’d be committed to the pot quickly.
If I’d been thinking really clearly at the time, here’s the thought process that I might have come up with: Jay, you could be ahead here, but there are way more hands you’re losing to than beating. And even those that you are beating you’re not that far ahead of. Just fold. It’s okay to get semi-bluffed now and then.
A slightly worse, but still reasonable, way of thinking would have been something like this: Define your hand, Jay. You can raise, and then see what happens. Make a decision once you see how everyone reacts to your aggression, and use that information to make the best choice.
Sadly, however, my thinking had devolved, and this was the best I could do: Shoot. I dunno. Folding doesn’t feel right. I could be ahead. Raising sounds really dangerous, though. Hmm. Errr. “Call.”
And that’s pretty bad. All the systematic thinking I’d been employing for hours went out the window at a crucial moment. I called because I couldn’t think of anything better. Not surprisingly, the hand didn’t work out well, and I lost a lot of chips. I was lucky to rebound from an error of this magnitude.
As I looked back on the tournament in the days that followed, I realized that this wasn’t a unique misstep for me. I have the tendency to fall back on a call because I’m out of ideas. I can’t come up with a plan that I really like, so I settle on a call. In these cases, the call isn’t a strategic choice; it’s a sort of compromise between raise and fold that has none of the advantages of the more extreme actions.
The call, like every other action at the table, should be a weapon. Gavin Smith and Erick Lindgren are masters of purposeful calls – Gavin wrote a great tip on the subject.
Since that tournament, I’ve been more cognizant of my reasons for calling. If there’s a sound strategic advantage for calling, fine. But if not, I’ll look to other options. |
To me, open-ended straight flush draw and open ended straight draw + flush draw are two different things, or am I being a nit? IMHO, an OESFD is Qh 9h on a Jh Th Xx board. |
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IABoomer
Moderator
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 7353
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - http://www.thehandconverter.com/hands/224666
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter
MP: $12.61
CO: $13.21
BTN: $17.82
Hero (SB): $10.45
BB: $21.27
UTG: $10.00
Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with Ac Jc
2 folds, BTN raises to $0.35, Hero calls $0.30, UTG raises to $1.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.45
Flop: ($3.95) Ts 6c 4c (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.80, Hero raises to $8.65 all in, UTG calls $5.40 all in
Turn: ($20.35) 9d (3 players - 2 are all in)
River: ($20.35) Kh (3 players - 2 are all in)
Final Pot: $20.35
Hero shows Ac Jc (Ace King high)
UTG shows Ad 8d (Ace King high)
Hero wins $19.00
(Rake: $1.35)
BB: lol
BB: nh
MP: A8 ?
MP: wTF ?
UTG: that's right
UTG: I proved you were on a draw lol |
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cubbies760
Drawing Dead
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 11119
Location: Depressed
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a little Badugi Wait....Wat?
PokerStars Game #31439393250: Badugi Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD) - 2009/08/09 17:50:59 ET
Table 'Bengt V' 8-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: azhotman ($5.95 in chips)
Seat 2: Oggi78 ($3.65 in chips)
Seat 3: DefJeff101 ($1.85 in chips)
Seat 4: cubbies760 ($23.60 in chips)
Seat 7: daheights1 ($9.05 in chips)
Seat 8: Markie1959 ($17.15 in chips)
Markie1959: posts small blind $0.10
azhotman: posts big blind $0.25
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to cubbies760 [Ah 9s 8c 6d]
Oggi78: calls $0.25
DefJeff101: folds
cubbies760: raises $0.25 to $0.50
daheights1: folds
Markie1959: folds
azhotman: raises $0.25 to $0.75
Oggi78: folds
cubbies760: calls $0.25
*** FIRST DRAW ***
azhotman: discards 2 cards
cubbies760: stands pat on [Ah 9s 8c 6d]
azhotman: bets $0.25
cubbies760: raises $0.25 to $0.50
azhotman: calls $0.25
*** SECOND DRAW ***
azhotman: discards 2 cards
cubbies760: stands pat on [Ah 9s 8c 6d]
azhotman: bets $0.50
cubbies760: calls $0.50
*** THIRD DRAW ***
azhotman: discards 1 card
cubbies760: stands pat on [Ah 9s 8c 6d]
azhotman: checks
cubbies760: bets $0.50
azhotman: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.50) returned to cubbies760
azhotman is sitting out
cubbies760 collected $3.70 from pot
cubbies760: doesn't show hand
azhotman leaves the table
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.85 | Rake $0.15
Seat 1: azhotman (big blind) folded after the 3rd Draw
Seat 2: Oggi78 folded before the Draw
Seat 3: DefJeff101 folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Seat 4: cubbies760 collected ($3.70)
Seat 7: daheights1 (button) folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Markie1959 (small blind) folded before the Draw |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 8692
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| IABoomer wrote: |
To me, open-ended straight flush draw and open ended straight draw + flush draw are two different things, or am I being a nit? |
the latter  |
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ohsnapzbrah
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1162
Location: someplace better than ann arbor, b*itchigan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Full Tilt Poker Game #13993900365: Table Ashby (6 max) - $0.01/$0.02 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:54:27 ET - 2009/08/12
Seat 1: ohsnapzbrah ($2.47)
Seat 2: DNA03 ($1.55)
Seat 3: texim ($2.03)
Seat 4: fred_du_41 ($1.25)
Seat 5: VICHY99 ($2.47)
Seat 6: spartan ninja ($0.61)
ohsnapzbrah posts the small blind of $0.01
DNA03 posts the big blind of $0.02
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ohsnapzbrah [Ad Ah]
texim folds
fred_du_41 folds
VICHY99 calls $0.02
spartan ninja folds
ohsnapzbrah raises to $0.08
DNA03 calls $0.06
VICHY99 calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [3c Jd 6s]
ohsnapzbrah bets $0.14
DNA03 calls $0.14
VICHY99 folds
*** TURN *** [3c Jd 6s] [Tc]
ohsnapzbrah has 15 seconds left to act
ohsnapzbrah bets $0.30
DNA03 calls $0.30
*** RIVER *** [3c Jd 6s Tc] [3s]
ohsnapzbrah has 15 seconds left to act
ohsnapzbrah bets $0.66
DNA03 calls $0.66
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ohsnapzbrah shows [Ad Ah] two pair, Aces and Threes
DNA03 mucks
ohsnapzbrah wins the pot ($2.28) with two pair, Aces and Threes
DNA03 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $2.44 | Rake $0.16
Board: [3c Jd 6s Tc 3s]
Seat 1: ohsnapzbrah (small blind) showed [Ad Ah] and won ($2.28) with two pair, Aces and Threes
Seat 2: DNA03 (big blind) mucked [4s 2c] - a pair of Threes
Seat 3: texim didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: fred_du_41 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: VICHY99 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: spartan ninja (button) didn't bet (folded)[/b] |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 8692
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| maybe he wasnt sure if he had a straight or not so he called just to make sure |
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Peepers_au
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 1132
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official Hand Converter
SB: $24.38
BB: $10.06
UTG: $4.58
MP: $10.00
Hero (CO): $15.07
BTN: $9.70
Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with 7 T
UTG calls $0.10, 4 folds, BB checks
Flop: ($0.25) J A J (2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10
Turn: ($0.45) J (2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20
River: ($0.85) A (2 players)
BB checks, UTG checks
Final Pot: $0.85
BB shows J K (four of a kind, Jacks)
UTG shows T Q (a full house, Jacks full of Aces)
BB wins $0.80
(Rake: $0.05) |
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WhatASurprise
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 2006
Location: You come at the king, you best not miss.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowplay is the new fastplay afaik. |
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kimdoocheol
Full House
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 222
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Full Tilt Poker, NL Hold'em Tournament, 30/60 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
MP1: 2,615
MP2: 14,228
Hero (CO): 2,805
BTN: 1,734
SB: 6,045
BB: 4,045
UTG: 2,680
UTG+1: 9,683
UTG+2: 2,600
Pre-Flop: (90) J 5 dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls 60, 2 folds, MP2 calls 60, 2 folds, SB calls 30, BB checks
Flop: (240) 2 Q 3 (4 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets 9,623 and is All-In, MP2 calls 9,623, 2 folds
Turn: (19,486) A (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
River: (19,486) 7 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)
Results: 19,486 Pot
MP2 showed J 5 (Ace Queen high) and LOST (-9,683 NET)
UTG+1 showed 7 T (a flush, Queen high) and WON 19,486 (+9,803 NET) |
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 3790
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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I was playing a much tougher hand on another table, so my bet sizing is a bit off in this due to not enough thought... but it turns out that was probably a good thing. Or who knows, if I'd sized everything correctly and shove a <PSB, maybe he still would have called...
(It's not a super awesome wait wat, but it's the strangest hand I've seen in a while and still a bizarre calldown considering the board... I mean wtf, did he put me on 65?)
Grabbed by
NL Holdem $4(BB) Replayer
Hero ($402)
BB ($98)
UTG ($309)
UTG+1 ($74)
CO ($414)
BTN ($417)
Dealt to Hero 4 4
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $11, Hero calls $9, fold
FLOP ($26) 4 Q 7
Hero checks, BTN bets $13, Hero raises to $40, BTN calls $27
TURN ($106) 4 Q 7 K
Hero bets $72, BTN calls $72
RIVER ($250) 4 Q 7 K T
Hero bets $200, BTN calls $200
BTN shows 8 8
(Pre 81%, Flop 10.8%, Turn 4.5%)
Hero shows 4 4
(Pre 19%, Flop 89.2%, Turn 95.5%)
Hero wins $647 |
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WhatASurprise
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 2006
Location: You come at the king, you best not miss.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Pretty wat imo |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 8692
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| nilgiri wrote: |
I was playing a much tougher hand on another table, so my bet sizing is a bit off in this due to not enough thought... but it turns out that was probably a good thing. Or who knows, if I'd sized everything correctly and shove a <PSB, maybe he still would have called...
(It's not a super awesome wait wat, but it's the strangest hand I've seen in a while and still a bizarre calldown considering the board... I mean wtf, did he put me on 65?)
Grabbed by
NL Holdem $4(BB) Replayer
Hero ($402)
BB ($98)
UTG ($309)
UTG+1 ($74)
CO ($414)
BTN ($417)
Dealt to Hero 4 4
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $11, Hero calls $9, fold
FLOP ($26) 4 Q 7
Hero checks, BTN bets $13, Hero raises to $40, BTN calls $27
TURN ($106) 4 Q 7 K
Hero bets $72, BTN calls $72
RIVER ($250) 4 Q 7 K T
Hero bets $200, BTN calls $200
BTN shows 8 8
(Pre 81%, Flop 10.8%, Turn 4.5%)
Hero shows 4 4
(Pre 19%, Flop 89.2%, Turn 95.5%)
Hero wins $647 |
it's bad but i dunno if it's wait wat bad. i mean he could be thinking you wouldn't bet a K or Q that hard, and might check a rivered T, so you're repping 2p+ but most 2p hands don't make sense on that board so you're really repping sets and backdoored straights, while he still beats lower pp's that are bluffing, 65, and air. |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 8692
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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No Limit Holdem Tournament
$300 + $20 Sit & Go
9 players
Converted at
Stacks:
UTG (925)
UTG+1 (1365)
Hero (MP1) (1115)
MP2 (1395)
MP3 (2465)
CO (1915)
BTN (1860)
SB (1415)
BB (1045)
Blinds: 25/50
Pre-flop: (75, 9 players) Hero is MP1 T 5
2 folds, Hero folds, 2 folds, CO calls 50, 1 fold, SB calls 25, BB raises to 200, CO raises to 350, SB folds, BB calls 150
Flop: 3 Q J (750, 2 players)
BB checks, CO bets 250, BB raises to 500, CO calls 250
Turn: K (1,750, 2 players)
BB goes all-in 195, CO calls 195
River: A (2,140, 2 players)
Final Pot: 2,140
CO shows: 8 7
BB shows: A Q
BB wins 2,140 ( won +1,095 )
CO lost -1,045
SB lost -50 |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 8692
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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No Limit Holdem Tournament
$160 + $10 Heads Up Shootout
2 players
Converted at
Stacks:
Hero (SB) (1320)
BB (1680)
Blinds: 10/20
Pre-flop: (30, 2 players) Hero is SB 9 9
Hero raises to 60, BB raises to 100, Hero goes all-in 1,320, BB calls 1,220
Flop: 2 T 2 (2,640, 2 players)
Turn: T (2,640, 2 players)
River: 8 (2,640, 2 players)
Final Pot: 2,640
Hero shows: 9 9
BB shows: T Q
BB wins 2,640 ( won +1,320 )
Hero lost -1,320
he actually timebanked to think about making this call...????!?! i guess he was putting me on a low pair so he could coinflip |
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craigo6x
Mr. Met
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4145
Location: Cursing the relievers in the bullpen
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm
Full Tilt Poker Game #14122498364: $5 + 0.50 Tournament (103870964), Table 42 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:57:44 ET - 2009/08/18
Seat 1: chako12 (2,355)
Seat 2: jodaree (2,400)
Seat 3: mcnwb (1,805)
Seat 4: craigo6x (2,455)
Seat 5: Rounda45 (2,290)
Seat 6: xxxKWxxx (3,740)
jodaree posts the small blind of 20
mcnwb posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to craigo6x [Kc 4c]
craigo6x folds
Rounda45 calls 40
xxxKWxxx raises to 160
chako12 calls 160
jodaree folds
mcnwb raises to 700
Rounda45 folds
xxxKWxxx calls 540
chako12 folds
*** FLOP *** [9s Td Jc]
mcnwb bets 1,105, and is all in
xxxKWxxx calls 1,105
mcnwb shows [Ad Qd]
xxxKWxxx shows [6c 7c]
*** TURN *** [9s Td Jc] [As]
*** RIVER *** [9s Td Jc As] [7s]
mcnwb shows a pair of Aces
xxxKWxxx shows a pair of Sevens
mcnwb wins the pot (3,830) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,830 | Rake 0
Board: [9s Td Jc As 7s]
Seat 1: chako12 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: jodaree (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: mcnwb (big blind) showed [Ad Qd] and won (3,830) with a pair of Aces
Seat 4: craigo6x didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Rounda45 folded before the Flop
Seat 6: xxxKWxxx showed [6c 7c] and lost with a pair of Sevens |
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