Online Poker Forum - Shoving on the bubble with any PP?

Danduy

Since i'm working at my bubble play there are still some things that i want take into discussion.

I'll put an example down below from a play i made earlier today.
since i'm at work (again) i have no HH that i can put down here. If i'm not at work i'm to busy playing Smile

5,5$ Sit & Go 9 handed.
blinds 120 - 240

BTN: 1: 6000 chips
SB: 2: 2300 chips
BB: 3: 3100 chips
UTG (ME): 2100 chips

Players are all tight aggressive and this is the hardest table i played on so far. V$IP are between 17 - 27, aggression factors are all around 4

Blinds are posted and i get 3-3 UTG. Now, since i'm the small stack here i need to make a play or else i'm stuck with a 1740 chips stack when the blinds pass. A normall play would be to shove here. But is it really so?

The only hand that i'm favorite on are 2-2 and all the other hands with a deuce or three. Not much hands with that will call an all-in bet from a short stacked UTG opener. But any two overcards will go for a coinflip and any PP except deuces are way ahead.

Now, is a shove with these small PP a good play? The equity of these small PP is below 25 at a 4 players table. Even K2s rates better then deuces and threes. Ok, there is some fold equity to go with it. But is it better to let the blinds pass and wait for a better opportunity?

These players also know that the short stack need to make a play soon and can call with almost anything. And especially because the BB is the most tight player so i had to take the shot. Since i'm the aggressor and i shove my chips in there there is some fold equity. But i can see a wide range hands calling here since i can shove any two. I got called by the sb who has me slightly covered with AQ and i lose the coin flip and was kicked out. I also could have won the hand but maybe some else has a theory about this kind of play.

marsupial311 · Royal Flush Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 502

On the one hand, the tight table isn't going to call you without something that can flip against a middle PP so a shove can very easily be a blind steal. On the other hand, if you do get called, you're probably crushed or flipping. While flipping at this stage is pretty much what you want, I think you can pick up a better spot to do it.

In your situation, You're pretty much only going to see about 10 more hands before you lose half your stack and are in desperation mode but there's also another person at the table with your same stack size and the small blind is also close to a short stack. I like patience in this situation and picking a better spot.

NilesMonkey · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject:

This is perfect for a shove. Your fold equity here is enormous. SB and BB cannot make a correct call unless they are WAY ahead here, because calling and losing will virtually kill their chances of winning.

The pot right now represents almost 20% of your stack. Plus, the blinds are about to hit you hard.

Shove and smile.

AllInDrawinDead · Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:04 am Post subject:

your equity only matters if you get called by one or more players. Sb & Btn don't want to gamble for large portions of their stacks so you're going to fold out a large part of their range. i don't like calling with small pairs in this spot, but i'll move with them. can't afford to get blinded out.

Azonicbh · Pair Joined: 02 Aug 2009 Posts: 44

You can't be scared of shoving in this situation for several reasons. I wouldn't say always shove on the bubble with a small pocket pair. It depends on the stacks sizes , size of blinds , passivity of players and several other factors.

But this situation is favorable for several reasons for a shove.
- You have less than 10bb and you have a decent hand.

- The sb and bb are both in a similar situation to yours. If they call you and lose , they are basically bubble boy as they will basically have no more fold equity. They are the ones you want to be shoving in on. Put extreme pressure on the ones that are most likely to bust if they call.

- Even if you are called , you will most likely be in a coin flip situation .

- If they are TAG players as you say and have a good understanding of sit n go bubble play , they will know that they can not call you unless they have a very strong hand to make a call a positive expectation play. Basically , most solid players wouldn't call you unless they have 66+ or a10suited+ , aj+.

- Even if they are not tag and are fairly loose , I still believe its they right play to make as even novice players will often recognise that if they lose with a call , they will be out just shy of making the money.

fat rugger · Royal Flush Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 787

This is a shove in most instances. As already stated SB and BB can't (or shouldn't) call you without a big hand.

Deciding to shove really has a lot to do with ranging your opponents starting hands. So unless you are against a big stacked BB who is calling super wide it is probably a pretty good shove unless there is a microstack at the table or for some other reason.

So what I am trying to say is: I think you need a reason not to shove this. And if there isn't one it's a pretty standard shove.

Azonicbh · Pair Joined: 02 Aug 2009 Posts: 44

fat rugger · Royal Flush Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 787

Danduy · Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject:

Well, this some good advice for al the posters above wich is appriciated.
I know that this play should be an automatic shove, certainly in the spot where i was in but i wanted to bring it up to discussion.

Thanx a lot to all you guys.

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