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Honest_Rob · Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: AA on the Button (line check)

Like usual, readless. I need to get pokertracker. Anyone know when 3 is coming out?

Is checking then calling down ideal here? This is one of those spots we're either way ahead or way behind right?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players
-

MP: $5
CO: $6.10
Hero (BTN): $26.05
SB: $19.55
BB: $38.95
UTG: $31.55
UTG+1: $50

Pre-Flop: A Diamond

A

dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.35) Q Spade

5

Q

(2 Players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($4.35) 3 Diamond

(2 Players)
UTG+1 bets $4, Hero calls $4

River: ($12.35) 3 Heart

(2 Players)
UTG+1 bets $4, Hero calls $4

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2121

Poker tracker 3 actually just came out today. I would highly recommend getting it. It comes with a HUD and everything.

I really dislike your flop play. A QQ5 rainbow board is so dry that I think there is a great chance that your opponent will either play back at you or float. Sure it is a possibility that he could have a Q, but way more often he will have 22-TT type of hands and he will at least call your flop bet. You just can't be afraid of a Q here though. You do have AA, so you take away a lot of AQ possibilities. You should definately play to get value out of his mid pairs.

My line would be to bet out $3 OTF, then maybe a smaller bet OTT and OTR. I'd probably go around 1/2p or 2/3p. I think those bet sizes are more likely to get a mid pair to stay along rather than a 3/4p or pot bet.

As played, I'd make I think I might make a raise OTR. His bet screams out blocking bet to me. It seems like he is trying to keep his showdown as cheap as possible. The problem with raising the river though is that you took such a strong line that it is almost impossible to get value out of worse hands, but at 25NL, there is still probably value to a raise. And if I added it up right, the only thing you can do is shove or mini-raise, but I hate mini raises.

IABoomer · Moderator Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 4365

If you've been C-betting a lot of flops, I almost like the check on the flop. If you bet out, this might be a good opportunity for someone to check-call a flop bet, then check-raise the turn which might lead you to believe they set a trap with a Queen and are now protecting against the diamond draw that opens up.

It kind of smells like someone with a Queen. They min-raise with something like KQs, don't get to check-call or check-raise the flop to see if you've got a hand and they start value betting the turn and river. You might be able to raise the turn to find out where you are.

As played, I think you have to call the river there. I don't think you can raise a double paired board, even with an overpair and get called by hands you beat often enough to be profitable.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject:

So you're happy to get it in on the flop? I haven't really noticed people playing back too often with mid pairs in this spot but I'm not sure. I do think they would call a flop bet with mid pairs often though. I guess I thought maybe there's more value by letting them bet their mid pairs and calling down since I have position and can bet if they check on later streets.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8150 Location: Sweden

Yeah it's WA/WB, but you're ahead way more often than not and will often be able to get 3 streets of value, making checking behind criminal. As played I agree with drtre about being tempted to raise the river even though it looks really strong. I disagree when it comes to minraising though, and think this is a pretty good spot for it. While raise/folding for that much of your stack does suck, it seems really unlikely that he'll 3-bet worse on that river even when you minraise.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject:

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8150 Location: Sweden

Honest_Rob · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:06 am Post subject:

esperz · Full House Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 220

I'm with you Rob.

The only hands I see calling that raise is KQ, AK, AQ, 99+, or a possible JQ, JK from a pretty loose player.

Any kind of a small bet on the river is begging for a re-raise (from a confident player) which I think most of us would fold. A huge raise would only be greeted by either an instant fold or instant call. Obviously, I think the instant caller would be beating you here.

From my view, you got nothing to gain betting beyond the turn, and a lot to lose.

If you HAVE to bet on this river for value, it would have to be something somewhat miniscule without looking like a pathetic attempt. $7 on this particular one? Not too many people would reraise that without the goods. I dunno'.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8150 Location: Sweden

Rob, are you usually firing 3 barrels with air here? If not, why?

Honest_Rob · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:43 am Post subject:

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2121

Honest_Rob · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:28 am Post subject:

Ok so if I'm getting the gist here are you guys just saying I'm underestimating the chances I get called down on three streets by a mid pair?

Also what do we do if we get raised on the flop or the turn?

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8150 Location: Sweden

My point with the 3-barreling comment is that if you don't think that is a good idea you can get 3 streets of value out of AA unless you think you're up against trips or better a lot when villain calls you down. If raised on the flop I call and reevaluate, and probably end up getting it in pretty often. If raised on the turn I'd tend to just fold right away because it looks so much stronger.

People just don't turn pairs into bluffs or raise a worse hand for value very often on the turn with this type of board texture in my experience, and if they want to bluff with complete air they tend to do it on the flop. The type of people who c/c an unpaired hand on that flop generally aren't going to c/r the turn with it I think.

I'm also not convinced that the flop is the best street to check through even if you do intend on checking one street. A lot of people just won't give you any credit if you c-bet a paired flop and would peel with a bunch of unpaired hands that they'd c/f unimproved on the turn if you checked behind. By betting the flop, checking the turn and betting the river you don't miss out on those retarded calls.

You also avoid making your opponent suspicious with a mediocre hand or air, since your line looks so much more like you're just c-betting and then giving up. When you check back the flop and bet the turn, a lot of turns are going to make it look like you were either slowplaying on the flop or shut down but then hit the turn and made a value bet.

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