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skeeter1114 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 2496

So I've played a couple of the $2 LHE MTT's on here, and have noticed one constant theme: People playing with absolutely no clue what they are doing. Whether it's because it's limit or $2, people are capping every street or raising with ATC. It's especially maddening because you see Ace high win some pots and a garbage 2 pair when others for huge pots. I am a fairly patient player, especially at the beginning, but my efforts are not getting me anywhere close to surviving the first hour, due to the point that I finally get my big hand (say KK) it loses to 4-9 suited. Any advice how to proceed at a table like this? I appreciate all comments, but would like to know what Fire Eyes and Ridic say, as I believe they are the 2 best LHE players on here. Thanks.

fire_eyes_2k · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject:

Well ridic and I have what I'd describe as very different styles and we've both been very successful, so dont I think there is a set way to play. But my way for the early stages is as follows...

First Level and a half

First levels are about observation. There should be at least 3 players at your table who are playing ridiculously aggressively and won�t last long. Identify these players who can give you value on your good hands. You want to be involved in pots with them. You should also identify the rocks at the table who don�t play a single hand without AQ+/TT+, chances are they won�t let go of it if they are outflopped.

You have plenty of chips, so now is the time to try and see some cheap flops in later position. If you�re lucky enough to hit any super-premium hands (AK, QQ+) then play them very very hard. Raise and reraise preflop. You want as few opponents as possible in the hands, and to be up against the calling stations. Set mining is currently profitable, but it won�t last beyond level 3, and it works best in multiway pots, so make sure you adjust.

And beyond...

As you move into levels 3-5, you should still play your big hands very fast, and you can still see some speculative flops. The really bad players will see their stacks drop below 500 and be well out before the hour is up, but make a note if anyone is playing like a retard and getting lucky. It�s open season on these guys later on. Set mining is probably only advisable if you have several people already in the hand, but you can pretty much open-raise 55+ from MP. I don�t advocate stealing yet, but if you raise unopened pots from CO/BTN/SB, people often see it as a steal, and defend like crazy.

You should have identified the complete nutters at your table by now. These people are easily outplayed, but it�s easier if you�re HU against them. If a UTG raising-station raises, and you have a AT then 3-bet him to isolate. You would normally fold AT there, but you�re way ahead of his range but still vulnerable, so you want to play him on his own. You may need to let it go postflop, but ensure that you�re behind if you do. No shame in calling him down with A-hi if you�ve seen him bet J-hi to the river before.

That was all taken from the start of a little 'guide' I was doing on how to beat the $26 LHE donkament. When its finished I'll put the lot up, but the bit above might contain some grammar or continuity errors.

mathman1115 · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject:

In my limited experience, there is one thing i've noticed. There WILL be players who think they have registered for a NLHE tournament. Once they realize they haven't, they start spewing. Some of them will even tell you in the chat box that they thought this was a NLHE tournament. I used to think that was just a line, but sure enough a couple minutes later they will cap every street with trash just to get rid of their chips. It's quite comical.

So when you say that players have no clue, this could be one of the reasons why. The fact is, players are so trained in how to play NL, they can't adapt to a limit setting.

I like to do a lot of limping early on when the blinds are small, especially when the clueless players limp (and you'll know who they are, because they'll limp almost every hand) with a variety of hands, like suited connecters and gappers, non suited connectors, low pp, suited Aces, Kings, and even Queens, etc. As we progress to the third and fourth levels, i slowly begin to tighten up a little more. These are still decent limping stages, but limping too much can dwindle your stack and the levels progress.

When about half the field is eliminated, you are now playing some decent players. This is where isolation plays (preflop and beyond) become important.

ridic x · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject:

I'm not gonna tell you a style you should play I'm gonna just give some general tips for the first hour. I'm also assuming you understand what standard LHE play is according to Sklansky.

Some General Tips

1. Just because the pot is giving you great odds doesn't mean you should play trash to see a flop. I've experimented enough with this to know that it's just not worth it to see a flop with 4 limpers and blinds with your 6T or even hands like 56off suit.

2. Don't slowplay it's not worth it and you will get paid off playing your hands straight forward.

3. Bluffing, yes they have bottom pair, yes you fired at every street, and yes your AK cannot beat their bottom pair. Now this is not to say you shouldn't continuation bet in a pot with 3 or less people if you have position and it's not to say you shouldn't try for free card plays. But don't be upset if you're trying to move someone off a hand and they just won't muck it. These LHE tourneys especially in the first hour are about extracting value with your made hands, not moving someone off their hand.

4. If you got to see a flop in the blind with a hand you normally wouldn't play there is no reason for you to play a big pot without the nuts. I'm guilty of this at times and it's just not worth fighting someone for a pot you wouldn't have played in the first place.

5. Over pairs. Do not slowplay/mess around with your big pairs raise/reraise/cap/isolate. Now a word of caution... let me put it this way if you have KK and 3 people not including you are heading to a flop and an ace pops out there it's time to shutdown and let it go. Also watch the draws on the board and if the board is paired. Again I'm assuming you can get a pretty good feel for where you stand. I'm not saying you should go passive with your big pairs or try and make that all-star muck but understand you are not God just because you have a big pair in the hole.

6. Use position to your advantage. Isolate people, buy free cards, load pots, play more hands if your table is loose. By more hands I mean suited connectors and suited gapped connectors. If you understand why you're playing them and what to do if you flop a big draw (IE free card plays, over-calls)you can rake in massive pots.

That's all I can really think of for right now. I'm not going to say you should play a certain way. Play your game but understand why you're making the moves you make. My style I wouldn't recommend if you're just starting into LHE. It's about building a stack in the first hour so I can sit back during the second hour and exploit the people who think I'm loose. My style also carries quite the variance. If you look at my OPD stats on LHE I'm either running deep or going out early with very few going out in the middle.

If you're wondering about what I will play pre-flop you can watch my PXF of the FTOPS LHE event. Yes it was 6 max but I play most of those hands full table tourney as well. It's free to sign up so you can see it.

http://www.pokerxfactor.com/servlet/pxf;jsessionid=1Wj5m3KPjs6c3183OOV401iUcgs?action=view&template=login.htm

I also think I put up a PXF of one of my 3k wins somewhere. I was a might bit looser than I am now pre-flop in that but it still should give a good idea of what my play is like.

Also if you have more specific questions I'm sure F/E or I as well as others could give you some input.

skeeter1114 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 2496

Here is my frustration with playing LHE. This is why I posed this question in the first place:

Full Tilt Poker Game #6269773457: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (47625895), Table 2 - 30/60 - Limit Hold'em - 8:22:35 ET - 2008/05/03
Seat 1: Kappro (540)
Seat 2: ante-eater (1,365)
Seat 3: Wargod20 (1,815)
Seat 4: Zyrtath (1,380)
Seat 5: henrysteven (1,455)
Seat 6: RedJake777 (2,490), is sitting out
Seat 7: skeeter1114 (1,455)
Kappro posts the small blind of 15
ante-eater posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to skeeter1114 [Qs Qh]
Wargod20 raises to 60
Zyrtath folds
henrysteven calls 60
RedJake777 folds
skeeter1114 raises to 90
Kappro raises to 120
ante-eater folds
Wargod20 calls 60
henrysteven folds
skeeter1114 calls 30
*** FLOP *** [4s Ad Th]
Kappro bets 30
Wargod20 calls 30
skeeter1114 calls 30
*** TURN *** [4s Ad Th] [Kc]
Kappro bets 60
Wargod20 calls 60
skeeter1114 calls 60
*** RIVER *** [4s Ad Th Kc] [9h]
Kappro bets 60
Wargod20 calls 60
skeeter1114 folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Kappro shows [As 7h] a pair of Aces
Wargod20 mucks
Kappro wins the pot (840) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 840 | Rake 0
Board: [4s Ad Th Kc 9h]
Seat 1: Kappro (small blind) showed [As 7h] and won (840) with a pair of Aces
Seat 2: ante-eater (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Wargod20 mucked [Qc Td] - a pair of Tens
Seat 4: Zyrtath didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: henrysteven folded before the Flop
Seat 6: RedJake777 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: skeeter1114 (button) folded on the River

Full Tilt Poker Game #6269787590: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (47625895), Table 2 - 30/60 - Limit Hold'em - 8:25:08 ET - 2008/05/03
Seat 1: Kappro (480)
Seat 2: ante-eater (1,635)
Seat 3: Wargod20 (1,905)
Seat 4: Zyrtath (1,350)
Seat 5: henrysteven (1,395)
Seat 6: RedJake777 (2,490), is sitting out
Seat 7: skeeter1114 (1,245)
Zyrtath posts the small blind of 15
henrysteven posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to skeeter1114 [As Kc]
RedJake777 folds
skeeter1114 raises to 60
Kappro raises to 90
ante-eater folds
Wargod20 calls 90
Zyrtath folds
henrysteven folds
skeeter1114 calls 30
*** FLOP *** [Jd Td Qc]
skeeter1114 bets 30
Kappro raises to 60
Wargod20 calls 60
skeeter1114 raises to 90
Kappro raises to 120
Wargod20 calls 60
skeeter1114 calls 30
*** TURN *** [Jd Td Qc] [Ad]
skeeter1114 bets 60
Kappro raises to 120
Wargod20 raises to 180
skeeter1114 raises to 240
Kappro calls 120
Wargod20 calls 60
*** RIVER *** [Jd Td Qc Ad] [Qd]
skeeter1114 checks
Kappro bets 30, and is all in
Wargod20 raises to 90
skeeter1114 folds
Uncalled bet of 60 returned to Wargod20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Wargod20 shows [Kd 2s] a Royal Flush
Kappro mucks
Wargod20 wins the pot (1,455) with a Royal Flush
Kappro stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,455 | Rake 0
Board: [Jd Td Qc Ad Qd]
Seat 1: Kappro mucked [6h 6d] - a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: ante-eater didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Wargod20 (button) showed [Kd 2s] and won (1,455) with a Royal Flush
Seat 4: Zyrtath (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: henrysteven (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: RedJake777 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: skeeter1114 folded on the River

Full Tilt Poker Game #6269824417: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (47625895), Table 2 - 40/80 - Limit Hold'em - 8:31:38 ET - 2008/05/03
Seat 1: purr20 (880)
Seat 2: ante-eater (1,935)
Seat 3: Wargod20 (1,955)
Seat 4: Zyrtath (1,255)
Seat 5: henrysteven (1,625)
Seat 6: RedJake777 (2,430), is sitting out
Seat 7: skeeter1114 (1,170)
Seat 8: SmooothHarold (1,465)
Seat 9: ky8787 (1,755)
Zyrtath posts the small blind of 20
henrysteven posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to skeeter1114 [Kd Kc]
RedJake777 folds
skeeter1114 raises to 80
SmooothHarold folds
ky8787 folds
purr20 folds
ante-eater folds
Wargod20 calls 80
Zyrtath folds
henrysteven folds
*** FLOP *** [Ts As 9d]
skeeter1114 bets 40
Wargod20 raises to 80
skeeter1114 raises to 120
Wargod20 calls 40
*** TURN *** [Ts As 9d] [5h]
skeeter1114 bets 80
Wargod20 calls 80
*** RIVER *** [Ts As 9d 5h] [5s]
skeeter1114 bets 80
Wargod20 raises to 160
skeeter1114 calls 80
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Wargod20 shows [8h Ad] two pair, Aces and Fives
skeeter1114 mucks
Wargod20 wins the pot (940) with two pair, Aces and Fives
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 940 | Rake 0
Board: [Ts As 9d 5h 5s]
Seat 1: purr20 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: ante-eater didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Wargod20 (button) showed [8h Ad] and won (940) with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 4: Zyrtath (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: henrysteven (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: RedJake777 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: skeeter1114 mucked [Kd Kc] - two pair, Kings and Fives
Seat 8: SmooothHarold didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: ky8787 didn't bet (folded)

These guys just are not folding hands and playing ATC. There is no concept of how a guy has been playing. Am I just getting extremely unlucky here or is there a leak somewhere that is costing me more money. FWIW, Wargod20 was literally in every hand raising.

njpokerhoney · Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:51 am Post subject:

I don't play LHE at all. This post by FE2k, mathman & ridic is going to make me try it. uh oh

nice job guys

BBCOACH44 · Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:37 am Post subject:

Another Quality thread, with alot of very good info.....WTG Guys Idea

Cattivo · Straight Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 119 Location: Chicago

Don't get married to your high PPs in large multiway pots in LHE. If you have KK, and there's an Ace on the flop, and everbody is already calling ahead of you, cut your losses and fold. There's always the next hand, and against the fish in those cheap LHE SNGs, wait for the big hands when the limits get higher. There's more of a chance of a heads-up situation at that point, giving a high PP a larger chance of holding up and taking down the pot.

I can't tell you how many times I've lost big pots early because of the situations you're describing, but came back to either win or cash because of the fish are playing almost every hand and end up under 750 in chips within 15 minutes.

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