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Honest_Rob
Forum Pro
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 6272
Location: counting my blessings
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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: How do you proceed considering the other doorcards? |
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Full Tilt Poker Game #4917735484: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (37335049), Table 1 - 80/160 Ante 15 - Limit Stud H/L - 13:26:29 ET - 2008/01/19
Seat 1: youngbuck31 (1,810)
Seat 2: PushinEdges (1,193)
Seat 3: DucedyDan (768)
Seat 4: RiverGutShot (2,090)
Seat 5: Bailee1998 (1,792)
Seat 6: GillyGurl (1,175)
Seat 7: freeflyte (2,012)
Seat 8: Honest_Rob (1,160)
youngbuck31 antes 15
PushinEdges antes 15
DucedyDan antes 15
RiverGutShot antes 15
Bailee1998 antes 15
GillyGurl antes 15
freeflyte antes 15
Honest_Rob antes 15
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to youngbuck31 [5c]
Dealt to PushinEdges [Kh]
Dealt to DucedyDan [3s]
Dealt to RiverGutShot [2c]
Dealt to Bailee1998 [Ac]
Dealt to GillyGurl [6s]
Dealt to freeflyte [4d]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [5d 4h] [3h]
RiverGutShot is low with [2c]
RiverGutShot brings in for 25
Bailee1998 folds
GillyGurl calls 25
freeflyte calls 25
Honest_Rob |
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rockycatt
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3139
Location: WE WANT RAKE BACK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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im calling ,for the next card  |
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Honest_Rob
Forum Pro
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 6272
Location: counting my blessings
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| rockycatt wrote: |
| im calling ,for the next card |
thanks fur the feadbak.
your pal,
HR |
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Pil Sung
Four of a Kind
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 261
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: How do you proceed considering the other doorcards? |
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| Honest_Rob wrote: |
Full Tilt Poker Game #4917735484: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (37335049), Table 1 - 80/160 Ante 15 - Limit Stud H/L - 13:26:29 ET - 2008/01/19
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to youngbuck31 [5c]
Dealt to PushinEdges [Kh]
Dealt to DucedyDan [3s]
Dealt to RiverGutShot [2c]
Dealt to Bailee1998 [Ac]
Dealt to GillyGurl [6s]
Dealt to freeflyte [4d]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [5d 4h] [3h]
RiverGutShot is low with [2c]
RiverGutShot brings in for 25
Bailee1998 folds
GillyGurl calls 25
freeflyte calls 25
Honest_Rob |
Bailee folded an A, which to me is a good thing. If the A was to act after you, I might be more inclined to fold here. From the information I have, I'm going to call. I still have a pretty good starting hand, that doesn't have a ton of outs dead. With only one heart showing, it's possible to catch some more of them as well.
Of course, if it's likely to be raised and reraised behind you, that changes everything. If no one is likely to raise three limpers, then it's an easy call. At that point you're only investing 25 chips to see if you can catch a big hand. |
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Honest_Rob
Forum Pro
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 6272
Location: counting my blessings
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: How do you proceed considering the other doorcards? |
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| Pil Sung wrote: |
| I still have a pretty good starting hand, that doesn't have a ton of outs dead. |
Every door card is an out for me except the K, whether it's to a straight/low or a pair. How many more outs could be dead here? unless more of them were also hearts. |
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Pil Sung
Four of a Kind
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 261
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: How do you proceed considering the other doorcards? |
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| Honest_Rob wrote: |
| Pil Sung wrote: |
| I still have a pretty good starting hand, that doesn't have a ton of outs dead. |
Every door card is an out for me except the K, whether it's to a straight/low or a pair. How many more outs could be dead here? unless more of them were also hearts. |
I only see three useful outs that are dead. The A, 2 and 6. A low 2pr isn't going to win many family pots (which is what this looks like it's going to be).
You're shooting to scoop, meaning you need a flush or straight. Since the A folded, that means that she didn't have two of them (although I know that doesn't mean that they're all still live).
I'm just saying that in this spot, it might be worth taking a card to see what it brings. Provided it's not going to turn into a raising war behind you on 3rd. |
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Honest_Rob
Forum Pro
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 6272
Location: counting my blessings
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: How do you proceed considering the other doorcards? |
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| Pil Sung wrote: |
| Honest_Rob wrote: |
| Pil Sung wrote: |
| I still have a pretty good starting hand, that doesn't have a ton of outs dead. |
Every door card is an out for me except the K, whether it's to a straight/low or a pair. How many more outs could be dead here? unless more of them were also hearts. |
I only see three useful outs that are dead. The A, 2 and 6. A low 2pr isn't going to win many family pots (which is what this looks like it's going to be).
You're shooting to scoop, meaning you need a flush or straight. Since the A folded, that means that she didn't have two of them (although I know that doesn't mean that they're all still live).
I'm just saying that in this spot, it might be worth taking a card to see what it brings. Provided it's not going to turn into a raising war behind you on 3rd. |
Well yeah obviously I'm not hoping to make a pair of 5's but it's still an out. I'd rather see other doorcards here is all I'm saying. |
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Pil Sung
Four of a Kind
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 261
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: How do you proceed considering the other doorcards? |
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| Honest_Rob wrote: |
| Pil Sung wrote: |
| Honest_Rob wrote: |
| Pil Sung wrote: |
| I still have a pretty good starting hand, that doesn't have a ton of outs dead. |
Every door card is an out for me except the K, whether it's to a straight/low or a pair. How many more outs could be dead here? unless more of them were also hearts. |
I only see three useful outs that are dead. The A, 2 and 6. A low 2pr isn't going to win many family pots (which is what this looks like it's going to be).
You're shooting to scoop, meaning you need a flush or straight. Since the A folded, that means that she didn't have two of them (although I know that doesn't mean that they're all still live).
I'm just saying that in this spot, it might be worth taking a card to see what it brings. Provided it's not going to turn into a raising war behind you on 3rd. |
Well yeah obviously I'm not hoping to make a pair of 5's but it's still an out. I'd rather see other doorcards here is all I'm saying. |
I would rather see other doorcards too, but that's not what was dealt.
Is folding in this spot wrong? No. Is raising? It's probably the worst of the three options. That's why I like calling here. If 4th isn't a good card for me (ie 4 to str, 4 to low, or another flush card), I'm done.
What I keep stressing is that this is a spot where you can potentially win a very big pot for a relatively small investment. |
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quick98ta
Straight
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 112
Location: OHIO
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| A call is best here i think even with a lot of dead outs its not alot of chips to invest and the outs you do have left are the best cards in the deck for you and with a lot of low cards your likely to have people betting draws on the next round or even getting a free card, and if the betting gets crazy you can lay it down. |
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Strasse
Forum Ego
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 5115
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I disagree with Pil, raising isn't the worst option, folding is. The best hand in stud8 is 345 suited, and you have 345 w/ two of a suit, still very good, even w/ some cards dead. I still probably just call tho, since ppl are unlikely to fold at this point. |
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Pil Sung
Four of a Kind
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 261
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Strasse wrote: |
| I disagree with Pil, raising isn't the worst option, folding is. The best hand in stud8 is 345 suited, and you have 345 w/ two of a suit, still very good, even w/ some cards dead. I still probably just call tho, since ppl are unlikely to fold at this point. |
Which means you agree with me. 
My original response was to see 4th. |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3629
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree with raising as the worst option. I'm likely to raise.
Unless you brick completely and more outs are burned, you're likely seeing 5th. Completing increases your fold equity on later streets while also sets up the possibility of free cards later on. All this for approximately 25% pot equity going into fourth with 3 to a wheel and 2 flush, a hand situation that I don't think you will be ruled out as worse than a 3 to 1 dog until atleast 5th street.
Granted 3 outs are burned, but that's out of 16 that you'd like to see. You also have to consider that 6 major wheel cards aren't available(although 1 is in a villain hand) in the 3's-5's.
For likely 2 small bets, you are going to be able to build a big pot with a big hand and get to see atleast 5 cards. If you miss and bail on 5th, your stack will decrease by only about 15%. |
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inabunnysuit
Pair
Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm with Zophar. Blockers or not, you're holding a premium hand, raise with it (build the pot and narrow the field at the same time? How can you not?). Unless you think the field will narrow itself and you'll get action after catching well. If they'll go to 3 or 4 bets on 4th and 5th after you catch a 2 or 6, but that's not the question. Yeah, I raise. |
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nimbus
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1312
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: |
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I think the best option here is calling, next best is raising, and folding would be terrible.
Here's why calling is superior to raising. With 345 when you make a hand, it's going to be a pretty good hand. You'll make a pretty good low. You might even make a low straight. When you make those hands, don't you want many players to have tagged along?
In this hand, it looks like your likely opponents are also going low.
RiverGutShot brings in for 25 [2c]
GillyGurl calls 25 [6s]
freeflyte calls 25 [4d]
Let's say you raise with 345 and it thins the field and it gets heads-up to the river. You pretty much have to make a hand to get any piece of the pot. So your return per bet is much smaller when it is heads up. Don't get me wrong, I would love to raise have it multi-way but I don't see that happening.
As opposed to a hand like (78)6 which actually wants fewer players or heads-up since it might win high (or scoop) if you make a pair against someone that also started with a low draw. |
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