Online Poker Forum - Poker as a game of skill

VRod105 · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: Poker as a game of skill

I thought this article was interesting. It talks about the fact that as players calculate their bets and odds very few hands goto showdown, and if all hands went to showdown the game would be relegated to luck. I wonder if the number of hands going to showdown is higher for online poker? Is that one of the reasons there are more Bad Beats online? Is this problem built into all forms of poker where there are weak players? Would playing no limit games amplify this issue?

Thoughts?

http://www.pokerlistings.com/evidence-in-poker-game-of-skill-33977

rockycatt · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject:

FROM WHAT YOU SAID bet size =odds .luck needed hands held by experienced players get folded,=fewer show down hands

be interesting if they had a face up showdown sit and go pay 1.00 and watch [lottery style ]

Abufznuf · Straight Flush Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 391

VRod105 · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject:

You lost me with some of that RockyCatt.

What the article said was most hands are not played to showdown. The only way to not play a hand to showdown is to fold a player. Skilled players should fold if they are not getting the correct odds, unless they have a good read or plan to steal the hand, ...

intopot · Flush Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 140 Location: Florida

Folding will definetly keep you fromgetting a bad beat. It might also prevent you from winiing the pot. these two thinks are certainties

Annovic · High Card Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Posts: 5

Big Slick x13x · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject:

To answer your questions: yes, yes, yes, no the opposite.

being online people have anonymity, which they use to be retards either in their actions or their play. More players = more bad players = more bad calls that get there so yes another reason for more bad beats online.

tehchipdonk · Full House Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 178

it's not, it's still gambling at the end of the day. ever wondered why poker is being played in the casino instead of in the office? yea go figure.. and even, full tilt states poker is gambling stating that under 18 year olds can't play on their real money site instead the under 18s can play on their play money portal...

LostOstrich · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:23 am Post subject:

It's obviously a gambling game that involves a large element of skill. Defining it as purely a game of skill would be wrong, as obviously there is a significant element of chance invloved. And vice versa.

griffinlord · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:

The most informative part of the article:

kwik · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject:

"This article provides empirical evidence that it is skill and not luck," concluded DeDonno based on his two studies, which demonstrated different outcomes after novice poker players received some strategy lessons. Simply put, those who learned poker strategy made better decisions and were more successful than those who were not taught strategy.

so there you go, the skill part of playing poker is .. learning how to play poker..skill is getting your money in the pot with the best hand after that is allllll luck

Skallagrim · High Card Joined: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 16

To understand what is going on here you have to understand the legal test (called the "predominance test"). The test says a game is gambling when the OUTCOME(S) of the game are mostly due to chance. A game is not gambling if the outcomes are mostly due to skill.

Two things happen in a poker game: 1) cards are dealt - that is chance 2) players PLAY their cards by choosing to either bet, call, raise, fold, or (when possible) check - that is skill.

Think of golf if the above doesnt make sense to you: wind, pin and tee placement, hardness/softness of the greens, and odd bits of terrain that make for crazy bounces - thats chance; swinging a club is skill. Though both are factors, which is the more important factor in determining your score?

So for poker, ask yourself this: which is more important to the outcome of a typical game or tournament: how the cards are dealt, or how the cards are played?

If you think its how the cards are dealt, please also include your screen name and the times you usually play Wink

.

You can read formal scientific, logical, and statistical proofs about this argument here:
http://pokerplayersalliance.org/forums/forum/55

Skallagrim

subsane · High Card Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Posts: 2

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