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Penguin06 · Full House Joined: 24 Jun 2006 Posts: 227

Was playin last night and was following along with my stats. My outcome was good with an 8th place finish out of about 400 but I am not very consistent in getting that high. I find that I am involved in alot of big pots but I dont go to showdown very often. After about 175 hands in the tourney I had gone to showdown 8 times and had won 8 times. I had seen about 30% of the flops. I am normally pretty agressive early on willing to go broke on a marginal call if it gives me a chance to get alot of chips early since it makes my agressive play easier then with a short stack. If i am able to make it to 2nd break and I am average stack, I then look to only play the stronger hands but I always come in for big raises to minimize players. I prefer to make large bets and take pots early(unless I flop the nuts obviously) instead of trying to draw my opponent in and possibly take a huge payoff or possibly get sucked out on. I also try and steal alot of blinds, so that when I do get a big hand people think I am overly agressive and pay them off. I feel like I can laydown a good hand when I have alot of chips, but when I am shorter stacked I cant seem to think the same way. I know there are alot of successful players on this forum and I would love some feedback. I also am having a hard time getting my big hands paid off where i hold like 58 in a BB checked to me and the flop comes 88K. It seems no matter how I play it, the other person always folds. For example, I held J8 off last night late in my tourney. the flop came 8810. i checked and the other player in hand made a pot sized bet. I just called. turn came a J so I checked again figurin I had nuts and hopin they had AJ or 99. They checked also. The river came a 2 makin it a rainbow board or no flush draw and I checked again. The other played checked also and showed me QQ. Hind sight is 20/20 obviously and it looks like I coulda pushed hard and got paid off, but how is it possible for the qq to think they were beat the whole time when I only called the flop and no over cards ever came???

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8177 Location: Sweden

I think you at least need to bet the flop in those hands. You want to start building a pot, and a lot of people are going to think that you're bluffing when you bet into a paired flop. Then you might want to check the turn depending on your opponent, but checking the river in the J-8 hand is hardly ever a good idea. As for playing big pots, it mostly depends on what you feel comfortable with. I prefer to try to keep the pot small in most cases unless I have a big hand though.

Penguin06 · Full House Joined: 24 Jun 2006 Posts: 227

TY for the comment. Its always good to see things through others eyes.

number1stunna4 · Four of a Kind Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 287

as far as the J8 hand goes, this is similar to another post where my response was that u cannot check call trips (out of position) without the other player being suspicious. a good player will slow down after ur check call. if u bet that flop maybe ur opponent thinks u have a T and reraises u. Using that knowledge if u r against a good player and the flop is paired u can use that play to bluff ur trips. check call and then bet big either the turn or river depending on ur read and u can usually get the player to fold, other things depending ofcourse.

Pokit2s · Message Board Junkie Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 1261

As for your question about being involved in a lot of big pots. This is how I usually think about it, at least in my cash games. I try to steal as many small pots as I can, but I never get involved in a big pot unless I have a big hand, or I am drawing to a big hand that I can break my opponent with. Try to stay away from huge pots and mulitway pots if all you have is top pair.

Beaudawg · Three of a Kind Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 97

Regarding the Pot size question --- I follow Phil Gordon's Advice....

Big Hands - Big Pots; Small Hand - Small Pots....

You do not want to be in a monster pot with a single pair or draw (generally speaking), usually the pot odds are going to be so inticing that you will call, and end up having all your chips in with a marginal hand.

As for your J8 hand, your Check-Call screamed out a Set....you didn't mention how the pre-flop betting went, but if you were inthere with a J8 i would assume there wasn't a lot of raising going on. Your opponent probably put you on a str8 draw when you checked, hence his pot sized bet to keep you from having the right Odds to call if you had a draw. When you called, he had to think a couple of things, either you were playing a str8 draw and were making a bad decision, or you had a high pair you were slow playing or that you had hit a monster hand, either a set of 10's or trip 8's, when the J hit on the turn and you checked again, your opponent now has a str8 draw themselves, so they check after your check to see a free card...when the blank comes on the river and you check, your opponent figures, last time I bet, he called, he could have a huge hand, if I bet and get re-raised am I going to play, and are my queens good....he obviously decided that he didn't want to risk it.

If you wanted to get paid off, I think a small 1/4 to 1/2 probe bet after the flop probably would have been better, he may have folded anyway, but if not, you have him putting money in the pot and can bet again on the turn....

I am not saying your opponent played his QQ that well, as had he played them well, you would have folded pre-flop to his raise with your J8.

Good luck and may all your Sets get paid off in the future.

Penguin06 · Full House Joined: 24 Jun 2006 Posts: 227

The reason I was in the hand with J8 was that i was a huge chip lead and had been hot. he made a 3x bet on the button. i was BB in a 7 handed table, so it was only 2X BB to me, with about 20K more than anyone in tourney, so I said what the hell. He could have possibly put me on JJ, KK, AA but I think I would have still made a bet on river and if reraised then probably folded. I think he should have bet harder on flop to know his hand strength. If he bets harder, I reraise and he could have folded knowing he is done. By betting not so much, he has put himself in guess mode and if he does have a good hand is not in position to get paid off by it. He got lucky to play it poorly, I am just a sore loser that I didnt take him out on the hand.

PSTAR-06 · Royal Flush Joined: 17 May 2006 Posts: 588

With this info we can't say who played how!!!

But whenever the board pairs, the good players will always be careful!

Whether you check or bet - whatever the good player will always be able to make the right decision.

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