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Rushinankil · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: Hand analysis

Ok, for my first Razz cash game I sat down with 10$ with the game plan to play nice and tight (As I always seem to do in cash games anyway)

Hand 1:
This hand I had essentially decided to fold, the moment I bought in. I also expected somebody to complete the bet as this had been happening quite often. So I tagged the check/fold button. However�

Full Tilt Poker Game #750947020: Table Banburry Cross - $0.25/$0.50 Ante $0.05 - Limit Razz - 15:06:50 ET - 2006/06/28
Seat 2: HARDCHEESE ($5.55)
Seat 3: Godown52 ($9.80)
Seat 4: Rushinankil ($10.75)
Seat 5: etinks ($6.35)
etinks antes $0.05
HARDCHEESE antes $0.05
Godown52 antes $0.05
Rushinankil antes $0.05
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to HARDCHEESE [8c]
Dealt to Godown52 [9d]
Dealt to Rushinankil [7h 5d] [9h]
Dealt to etinks [4c]
Rushinankil is high with [9h]
Rushinankil brings in for $0.10
etinks folds
HARDCHEESE folds
m_newbs sits down
m_newbs adds $5
Godown52 completes it to $0.25
Rushinankil folds

Godown52 completed it with a 9 showing and as he had only just sat down he was an absolute unknown to me. Now assuming my opponent is an aggressive player, who completed the bet with a 9 showing, would you expect my [7,5] in the hole to be good enough to make this sort of call on a regular basis. I would expect this sort of call would be very read dependant.

Uncalled bet of $0.15 returned to Godown52
Godown52 mucks
Godown52 wins the pot ($0.40)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.40 | Rake $0
Seat 2: HARDCHEESE folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: Godown52 collected ($0.40), mucked
Seat 4: Rushinankil folded on 3rd St.
Seat 5: etinks folded on 3rd St.

Hand 2:
Full Tilt Poker Game #750989040: Table Banburry Cross - $0.25/$0.50 Ante $0.05 - Limit Razz - 15:26:33 ET - 2006/06/28
Seat 1: m_newbs ($6.70)
Seat 2: HARDCHEESE ($2.85)
Seat 3: Godown52 ($10.65)
Seat 4: Rushinankil ($8.80)
Seat 5: etinks ($6.30)
Seat 6: atari2600 ($11)
Seat 7: o_GABE_o ($9.10)
Seat 8: unklepaddy ($3.45)
etinks antes $0.05
o_GABE_o antes $0.05
atari2600 antes $0.05
Godown52 antes $0.05
m_newbs antes $0.05
unklepaddy antes $0.05
HARDCHEESE antes $0.05
Rushinankil antes $0.05
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to m_newbs [Qc]
Dealt to HARDCHEESE [Ad]
Dealt to Godown52 [6d]
Dealt to Rushinankil [6s 5s] [2h]
Dealt to etinks [Ts]
Dealt to atari2600 [As]
Dealt to o_GABE_o [Jd]
Dealt to unklepaddy [7c]
m_newbs is high with [Qc]
m_newbs brings in for $0.10
HARDCHEESE calls $0.10
Godown52 calls $0.10
Rushinankil calls $0.10

Person just calls in EP, I have ([6,5][2]) not a great hand (I am assuming), but a semi-decent hand.(it was at this stage I had a strange thought passed my mind, but I�ll leave it �til the end until I discuss it) I just called because the person who called UTG, could have me beat at this stage, and I didn�t want to face a re-raise if I was to raise with my hand. Good play? Bad play? ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE PLAY?

etinks folds
atari2600 folds
o_GABE_o folds
unklepaddy completes it to $0.25

This guy completes the bet with a 7 showing so I know I have him beat at this stage.

m_newbs folds
HARDCHEESE calls $0.15

And the guy with the Ace showing just calls. Therefore I would expect to have the best hand at this stage, should I be raising here, considering I the fact that I think that I have the best hand at this stage?

Godown52 calls $0.15
Rushinankil calls $0.15

I just call.

*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to HARDCHEESE [Ad] [3h]
Dealt to Godown52 [6d] [5h]
Dealt to Rushinankil [6s 5s 2h] [9c]
Dealt to unklepaddy [7c] [2s]
HARDCHEESE bets $0.25
Godown52 calls $0.25
Rushinankil folds
unklepaddy calls $0.25

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7.75 | Rake $0.35
Seat 1: m_newbs folded on 3rd St.
Seat 2: HARDCHEESE folded on 7th St.
Seat 3: Godown52 showed [4d 3d 6d 5h Qh 4s 2d] and won ($7.40) with 6,5,4,3,2
Seat 4: Rushinankil folded on 4th St.
Seat 5: etinks folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: atari2600 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: o_GABE_o folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: unklepaddy mucked [Tc 6c 7c 2s 8d 3s Ah] - 7,6,3,2,A

My theory:
Feel free to tear this theory to shreds, just as long as you tell me why this style of play would be soo Terrible. (Also I am approaching this drawing game with a holdem mind)

OK say I get [2,3][A] in the hole. The best starting hand in this game. And that I am last the person to act. Also assume that I am playing semi-decent opponent who have noticed that I am playing very tightly and who will likely fold to my raise.

OK then, I am playing in an 8 handed game and am last person to act. Everyone calls before me with a variety of door cards showing ranging from deuces to Kings. Now whatever I do I here with my 32A (call or raise) I can expect to have the best hand at the showdown enough times to show a profit. However if I just call I am getting everyone in on this hand therefore I am getting better odds before 5th street, considering that most people will fold their hand, If I were to raise. Therefore I can expect to make more in the LT, just by calling.

Please could you respond to my hands and just tell me what I should have done and then rip my theory into pieces

drcossack · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject:

This advice may or may not be correct - this is simply how I would approach the game.

Regarding the first hand: people playing Razz are really bad for the most part. The game's a gold mine if you can withstand variance, bad beats, and running bricks when you start with A23. With that in mind, you've got a playable hand for one more street. If you catch a 4, 3, 2, or A, continue. If not, muck it. With etinks folding, it's safe to assume he's got two low cards in the hole.

2nd hand: Again, play it to 4th and see how the hand develops. If you get 10-K low on 4th, you're playing catch-up against the two players with an Ace, and you should check/fold. However, they could also catch a bad card or they could pair their Ace, which means you're more likely to be ahead.

Rushinankil · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject:

Cheers for the advice

more please! Need to learn!!!

Just finished my first Razz cash game... 0.25/0.50... 123 hands.. $2.95 profit with what I believe to be exceptional variance.

bonzodrums0 · Straight Flush Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 394

My advice to you and your playing .25/.5 razz. Generally you do not need to disguise the strength of your hand when you have a good hand. From the .25/.5 razz i have played, many of the players are Razz Donkeys so try to get in as many bets as possible with the best hand, even if it completely gives your hand away. But you might not want to listen to this, because i'm not really the best razz player... Confused

SaylorMarsh · Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject:

Hand 1 is a call. Even if the completer has (A-2) 9, you're only about a 56/44 underdog (http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1808621) and you're getting 55�-15� = 3.67-1 on your money to call. And of course, since he's trying to steal the antes, his hand may be worse than (A-2) 9.

Hand 2 is an instant complete/raise. There's no reason to fear someone who only limps the bring-in, whether they have an A showing or not. In fact, I'd be more inclined to think they have a pretty wretched hand otherwise, since they're too timid to raise it up with an A in the door, and too stupid to fold even if they have (10-8) in the hole. Yes, he may be sandbagging and could re-raise behind you, or maybe the guy behind you with an A has an outstanding hand. But with (6-5) 2, you have a great hand, almost certainly no worse than second best thus far, and likely a couple dummies padding the pot with worse hands (I doubt the other guy with a 6 up has you beat).

It probably didn't make much of a difference, since the dude with a 7 showing completed after all of you acted, and he probably wasn't going to raise right after you when you've shown power with a deuce up. And fourth street is a good fold, since you've caught pretty bad and everyone else appears to have caught great.

As for your general theory, not raising with 32A to start is a TERRIBLE idea, similar to not raising with AA in a limit hold'em game. ESPECIALLY if the entire table has limped in with trash in front of you. You seem to think that they'll fold to your raise. They won't. They'll keep on calling. Razz is loaded with idiots who chase everything. Sometimes they'll hit and torch your premium hand, but while you have the best of it, get every penny in that you can. If you brick up and your opponents break into strong-looking hands, then reevaluate. But in poker, the object is to get as much money in with the best hand as possible and wait for your mathematical percentage advantage to kick in.

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