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joepal
Flush
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 126
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 Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| I actually laid down KK when i flopped a King. I was in a WSOP Main Event qualifier when I picked up KK in middle late position. We were down to like 18 people left. I raised 3X the blind and the BB with a stack larger than mine called. The flop came with a King and 2 diamonds. He checked and I bet 3/4 of the pot and he called. Another diamond came on the turn and he checked again and i should have bet but figured if he hit his flush i was putting dead money in and just hoped the board paired on the river and i would have a lock. Of course a diamond came on the river and he moved all in. He showed Ad 10d and all he really needed was the 2d to beat my hand. Bad luck i guess, but i knew something was up and got away from the hand for a minimal loss. Still only ended up in 13th place out of 144 when my A9 off lost to 10d 2d. I guess diamonds aren't a guys best friend. |
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CoolFin69
Flush
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| supfool123 wrote: |
Thanks for everyone's comments. Everyone seems to be relating it to being dealt pocket aces. What I am looking at is why do we put some much at risk just because we "think" we have the best hand? Now, I can see pushing hard if you have the nuts on the flop, turn or river. Lets say you are an hour and a half in to a 30 person tournament with 17 players left, you are in 4th place with a stack of 3500. Blinds are 100/200, you have just been moved into this seat/table and you have no reads on any players yet. You are in middle position and dealt QhQs.
sb: posts 100 still to act (4500)
bb: posts 200 still to act (800)
p1: raises to 250 (1200 in chips)
p2: reraises to 550 (3200 in chips)
p3: folds
p4: folds
p5: QhQs (3500 in chips)
p6: still to act (2500 in chips)
p7: still to act (1600 in chips)
pot is now: 1100 (100+200+250+550)
What do you do from here? Do you call, reraise (if so to what) or fold. Why? |
I'm re-raising all-in almost instantly. I'd really prefer to just end the hand right here because I know that at best any caller is going to have at least one overcard, which will usually be an ace. I'm happy to give him 3 main outs for all his/my chips at this stage in a tourney. Yes, you're in 4th, but you're only halfway through the tourney. If this is online you're playing against a much looser bunch and getting less information (especially since you just sat down) so put them to the test and not yourself. If you're like me, your preference (online) is to finish high in the money or be gone early to move on the next opportunity. What is the sense in playing if you're going to fiddle away queens preflop? If you're going to play tight you're going to either fold this now or fold when an A or K comes on the board. Or worse, you'll get all your money in after you're beat.
in my not-so-humble opinion, I feel like if someone wakes up with Ks or As against your Qs, they pretty much deserve your money anyway. So now your worst case scenario is that you're dominated and still have about 20% to win with 5 cards to come. More likely, though, you're forcing a guy to call with either a dominated smaller pair or a less than even AK or 1 of those 2...
In this spot, you can't really be disappointed by any of the normal outcomes if you "play it right" and jam it in.
#1) All-in called. Opponent has overpair. You lose.
#2) All-in called. Opponent has overcard(s) and hits. You lose.
#3) Uncalled bet. Pot won and moving on to next hand. |
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CoolFin69
Flush
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Lepoppet wrote: |
Laying down AA is still soooooo hard for me to do. The check-raise by my opponent or the "bet-by-me *over-top-raise-by them" is something I've only recently overcome. When someone check-raises/comes over top of me I usually give them credit for at least two pair or a set. I'm now able to lay down TPTK in this situation.
But I've never been able to lay down AA yet on a post-flop board. It's still a hurdle I need to overcome in my poker development. |
I really hope that people don't start figuring out to do this, because I do so well against aces. My new name actually became Bullet Cracker after I analyzed and realized that aces are one of the hands I have the best equity against. Luckily most amateurs have a hard time realizing why this is, but c'mon, they're just now starting to realize that AK has such poor equity for them when they play that LIKE aces.
The stories relayed in this thread should point out to people what I'm talking about on how you can *knowingly* come in against aces (at what? 4x BB)... You're at worst 20% to win? I almost always get more than 5x the preflop bet at showdown against aces, which more than justifies coming in against them for small amounts before the flop. Granted, you're actually *LESS* than 20% to win/take the lead ON the flop (which is where you NEED to win)... but I'm rarely trying to do this with a smaller pair or any ace... I'm doing it with suited connectors or even some other funky unpredictable combos. |
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Notorious_JL
Straight Flush
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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IMO, the main problem is when folks assume their Rockets are still dominant AFTER THE FLOP.
Yes they are big favorites pre-flop (and I'll put all my chips in the center with AA or KK), but after the flop the table knows a lot better where they are at. AA is asking to get busted if they bet strong and can't get away from top pr post flop if someone comes over the top.
I'm guilty of it too, but I have (and am getting better) at laying them down!
That's why playing connectors in position and hoping to hit 2pr or straights/flushes is so profitable against AA, KK, and QQ. If someone has AA KK, or QQ it's most likely they won't make the straight or flush, so you usually know where you are at.
JL |
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