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AllInDrawinDead · Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: Worst Kind of 4th ST.

Which way is the worst to brick on 4th?

1. A face card
2. An open pair
3. A split pair

Personally I think it is the worst to have a face card showing on 4th. If you pair up at least you know that is one less baby in the deck for your opponents.

ahuffman · High Card Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 13

I only learned how to play razz on Sunday, but so far it seems to me that a face card is the worst on 4th street.

jpeterson007 · Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject:

I'd have to say this all depends on position and what everyone else has. If you have position and someone with three low cards checks to your face card then you may be able to assume a split pair, or maybe they have a higher face card down. However in earlier position neither a showing pair or face card has much bluff value and in later position you need to get lucky to bluff the situation but I would rather have a face card than a showing pair in most situations. Your opponent might have paired 5th street, and then could pair 6th puttiing you ahead in the hand. Pairs are the devil in razz.

jbrennen · Straight Flush Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 422

Heads up against a single opponent, the worst way to brick on 4th street is to pair your door card, which also happens to be a baby card which your opponent is showing. For instance:

You have (7-2)-4-4 vs. opponents (X-X)-3-4

In this case, you're probably behind and your opponent knows it; it's unlikely your opponent paired on 4th street.

The best way to brick on 4th street is to pair one of your down cards, preferably of a rank where some dead cards have been folded. For instance:

You have (7-2)-4-2 vs. opponents (X-X)-3-5
Plus, somebody folded a 2 on 3rd street.

Here you're still a likely underdog, but you know of 5 low cards which your opponent needs but doesn't have -- also, with the folded 2 on 3rd street, an observant opponent will figure that it's a little less likely that you paired up on 4th street, and that may make the difference between him calling or folding a marginal hand here or on 5th street.

You need to bet out here even though you bricked. If your opponent paired on 4th street or if he was going for a steal on 3rd street, you could win the pot right here. And if you are called, you've still got decent prospects to win at showdown.

SaylorMarsh · Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject:

In my self-taught, nowhere-near-expert opinion, the worst way to brick up in razz is to hit a face card. The reason is because there are no upsides.

If you start (3-2) A and then hit a K on 4th, someone with any four unpaired cards lower than 10 has now become a favorite (depending on dead cards, of course). There's no way of getting around that.

If you hit a hidden pair, your opponents may not know it (especially if, as jbrennen noted, it's a card in short supply).

If you hit an open pair, that's obviously bad, but the one good thing is you'll probably have position for the rest of the hand. And depending on how good your cards are, you may still be ahead. If you have (3-A) 6-6 then catch a 5 on fifth and your opponent gets paint, you're almost always a favorite to win because your draw kills his (at best) mediocre made hand. If he bets into you, raise him every time.

Usagi_yo · High Card Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 7

Hitting an open pair on 4th street is by far the worst. Not only do you probably slip far behind, but it gives your opponant a tactical advantage. I.E they can play their hidden split pairs to run you out.

Next comes hitting a split pair when you pair your hidden 8 or 9. And your opponant catches seemingly good. This weakens your hand considerably (duh), but many players think they can still shoot their way out when in fact they can be a considerable longshot.

After that comes the K/Q/J because you lose alot of equity.

Examples:

(7,5)3,3
(8,3)A,8
(7,5)3,K

None of these hands look good after forth street. Which one do you want to have if your opponant shows?
(X,X)2,7

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