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hanoverfoote · Pair Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 46

Hey all,

In NL games, I'm a big fan of calling a 3-4xBig Blind raise with small PP trying to hit a set. The payout is great when it comes, doubling up is a real possibility.

But I'm wondering if this translates well to Limit Hold 'Em. Is there profit to be made over the long term by set-mining in Limit ? Should I be entering a raised pot with small PP?

honkythunder · Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject:

Yes. You can cold call two bets with a small pocket pair with no fear. The implied odds of a set make it worth it. If its 4 handed or better to the flop, then you can call again to see the turn so long as its only one bet to you.

Miller, Skalansky, and Malmuth agree to this as well in Small Stakes Holdem.

The biggest pots I take down are consistantly small pairs that make a set. Just yesterday I called two bets preflop with 44. I ended up getting every round from the flop on capped. I was playing against top-two-pair and an ace-high-flush. In 1/2 limit this made for a $62 pot (one player's stack got tapped before his last two bets). Yummy!

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4177

You can often call a raise with a pocket pair, but I suggest you get pokertracker and monitor your hands closely to see if you start losing money with those baby pairs. They can be very profitable or a giant money pit.

deadmoney314 · Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: ...

I think you need to throw an occasional re-raise (maybe like 10% of the time) in your arsenal instead of always set mining. A case in point is if you have an aggressive preflop raiser to your right and the table has been playing reasonably tight, you can isolate the aggressor and put him on the defensive. If you have been playing tight, it makes it difficult for anyone else to cold call, they will simply have to have a hand. A lot of bullys (not all) will get scared from the confidence coming from a tight player so make sure you have that image when you are going to do this. If it all works out you will have position on an aggressor on a board of j-6-3 and take the pot down there or on the turn, betting both streets of course.

AllInDrawinDead · Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:33 am Post subject:

Also keep in mind that you will not always win when you flop that set. If it is a small set you will make a small full house which could lose to a bigger one. Usually you want to win without improving which means the board has to cooperate. In early position I don't like to raise with baby PP and I don't know if it is going to get raised and reraised behind me so I usually lay it down. In late position you can see how many are going to the flop and at what price so you can decide then whether or not it's worth it.

hanoverfoote · Pair Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 46

Thanks for the replies ...

It's tricky business with those smaller PPs .. hit a few sets last night but only picked up a single pot . The rest of my sets came on flops of a single suit and the board never paired.

Jaconda, I'd love to buy PokerTracker .... unfortunately I'm running off of a mac. It seems like an invaluable tool for finding holes and flaws in your game. I can't wait until MacPokerPro adds FT compatibility. I'd love to see where I'm going wrong . .

jack-actionhero · Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject:

I still don't get why anybody would use a mac... Makes no sense to me.

AllInDrawinDead · Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: Re:

BOYNAMEDSUE · Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject:

I think you should only play small pair if you're confident you can win some pots without hitting. If you're uncomfortable playing small pair after the flop, and if the only way you'll win the pot is if you hit your set than you should fold. You won't win enough in limit to make it a profitable play.

hanoverfoote · Pair Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 46

Jack -
I always look forward to your comments .. I get a chuckle out of how much of a negative crank you are .. Laughing

jack-actionhero · Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject:

nahh, it's not negative. I just have a mild attitude problem. Wink

mathman1115 · Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject:

Back to the point of this thread.....
Once you gain some experience in limit, i think low to medium pp are good hands to call raises with (like some others said) and i believe raising even more than 10% (as deadmoney suggested) is a good play. Just because someone raises ahead of you (especially in mid to late pos) doesn't mean they have a high PP. They could just have two high cards. By reraising sometimes, you can narrow your opponents hands down and perhaps even steal the pot if your opponent has 10/10 or JJ and two high cards come. Of course you have to know your players. make sure they are capable of folding if they think they are behind. That is of course a little harder in limit.
Also, if you want to set mine, it is also a good idea to have (or to expect to have) as many players in the pot as possible. If a player raises utg and you are next with 33, i don't like calling this one. I am not guaranteed a lot of players in the pot and there is a good chance for a reraise as well.

Pataxe · High Card Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1

If you want to run PT on a Mac just get Paralels or VMWare. Parallels is really cool because it lets you run Windows apps directly from the dock without having to actually see windows. The only bad part is it costs 79.99 and you need a windows liscence as well.

VMWare just came out with their free beta for the Mac but I haven't tried it yet so i cannot comment on how good it is. i have used it on a PC for quite some time and really like it. I run PT in a VMware image on my pc becaus restage quite a bit and hate having to reregister every time.

http://www.parallels.com/
http://www.vmware.com/products/beta/fusion/

ridic x · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:31 am Post subject:

def get poker tracker and keep track of how playing these go. Also are you talking full table or short-handed b/c IMO the play of these types of hands vary greatly from full table to short-handed. Only advice I have for full table is this. If you are the button up to 2 off the button and there are 4 or more people in the pot already and you hold one of these small PPs raise or 3 bet and trap everyone for an extra bet for when you hit. Not only that if you hold a baby PP and you 3 bet no one will see a set coming. Once again though I can't stress enough that you need to keep track of your win/loss ratio with the way you play these hands.

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