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Guest · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:47 am Post subject: Late in Tourneys...

I play a lot of MTT and I am always shocked with the types of players in them. I play only double stack tourneys because they actually allow you to play real poker, as opposed to having 1,500 chips and just be waiting for your first big hand before you double up and can play normal poker.

I'm always surprised with people's play (calling a re raise all in with a low PP, smooth calling a re raise with 99 after someone else raised in the first place). I'm not complaining at all, as I am easily beating these people, but it's frustrating to always lose late in tourneys because of it.

Last night I was deep in the $30 DS (4 people left), and I was playing obviously tight and went all in from SB for 50,000 with KQ, when the BB was 5,000 (After it folded around). The BB had 80,000 in chips and I figure he won't risk that much of his stack unless he has a good hand. He called with 109s.

To make matters worse, flop was AJ3, leaving him 3 outs, the 9 (the 10 gives me the straight). The 9 came on the river of course.

I don't understand their thinking on this, what do people like this think, "maybe he's got a low pp and it's a coin flip"? So many people seem to want to bank on coin flips late in tourneys and often get screwed to overpairs. I often fold < 88 pps to re raise all ins if I can still get out of the hand without leaving too much in (which i take into account before i make my bet and how much everyone else has that is still in the hand).

It always surprises me how bad players make it so far in tournaments.

Someone please tell me I am right

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4177

You're wrong. Late in tournaments, you have to steal and take chances to avoid getting to the point you were at - having only 10 BB and having to go all in preflop. The key is to have a sufficiently large stack that you can risk knocking people out with a marginal hand without risking all your chips (not make a move for most of your stack, like the hand you mentioned). Also, that way you leave yourself room to play after the flop - I HATE going all in preflop if I can possibly avoid it - and if I stay over 10BB, I can avoid it far better than when I'm shortstacked.

AllInDrawinDead · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject:

You may have have the best hand but you were only about 60-40 to win there. 50,000 represented more than half of this guys stack and to call it with a suited connector was not the most sound decision but he made it and he was not that far behind. The best he could hope for is for you to have two high cards or a pair 88 or smaller. These players make it so far in the tournaments because they have a lot of chips to try to bust people with.

Guest · Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:02 am Post subject:

Jaconda, how am I wrong?

I am the one who pushed all in. I had 10x BB. He called with 109 when he had 18x BB in his stack.

PokerNome · Guest

There are many sides to this story. For one, I strongly believe that the guy made a horrible call for 50-60% of his stack with a very marginal hand. He had no reason or odds to make the call, but he got lucky that you didn't have him dominated and was only a 60-40 dog.

At the same time, you calling people bad players for taking risks and coinflips is both correct and incorrect. If a player feals out-classed post flop, then it is very correct the take the 50-50/60-40 gambles, because they simply can't win a good string of pots post-flop without getting lucky and hitting every one. So really, the double edged sword of NLH is the fact that inexperienced players can move-in preflop and take away the edge the good players have postflop.

Ever notice that the first day chip leader rarely wins a tournament? The early leaders are those who have taken (and won) several gambles, and now have an enourmous amount of chips. With these chips, the player could always slow down and use more post-flop tactics, but usually you will see them continue gambling on 50-50 and 60-40 propositions, and eventually these players go bust (often even before the money).

Now, at the end of a tournament, I strongly believe that taking 50-50 gambles is a bad idea, expecially of experienced players. Being all-in pre flop is usually not a good thing, because then you have decent chance to be busted. Keeping pots small and working a strong lead is what I find to be the most sound and consistently winning stratagy, then once a strong stack is made, those 50-50 gambles can be taken alittle more liberally in order to knockout the shortstacks (under 10BB's).

Just my 2 cents.

FatStacks06 · Royal Flush Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 736

Well, you went all-in with KQo, which isn't the best idea in the first place. The BB decided to protect and made a stand with another marginal hand. He had to figure his cards were live, and that any card that helped you might also help him make his straight or his flush. I see no problem with his call. He made the call to bust another player and move up in the money. With 30,000 chips he could still be in it, although he would have to get lucky. The blinds move up so fast that you have to make a move with marginal hands. You were a dog to any A or PP. Be thankful that he only had T9 so you can complain about the "bad beat". 60-40 is more of a coinflip, and to win tournaments you have to win coinflips. You probably won a few to get to the final table. Cheer up, you still placed 4th, which is a really good effort in a low buy-in field.

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