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brat99 · Guest

I have an argument with a friend of mine about a play to make in early position with KK. 3/4ths of a way through a tournament I have KK under the gun, what is the better play here, raise 2x the BB, 3x, or limp? By the way how this particular hand worked is, I am in 7th place, with 25 left. I would just like to hear some discussion about this play.

My thoughts are to do a standard raise of 3 times, this eliminates an early position caller. I don't want an early position caller because it allows the button or blinds to call with some kind of suited connector hand, or a suited A. I like the 3 times the blind raise. This may be easier to get heads up with a raiser that may be short stacked or just someone making a play hoping it could be a race when you are sitting with a great hand. I think playing KK out of position with 3 callers can be a hard play to get away from if someone makes a play after the flop when you price everyone out of a draw, but there is a reraise, could have 2 pair, or flopped a set.

I can see this happening with the min raise though, that an AT calls, or AJ, or something like that and it is a 10 high flop you bet, get reraised, then you just maximized a huge pot there. I think it is a risky play overall, but it could give you a bigger reward.

I just think this is a good discussion and would like some input on this play, and what is optimal.

KGBlovesOreos · Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 5318 Location: VA

comin4you · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject:

I don't think it can be put any simpler than what KGB said. It all depends on how the table's been playing, and what your chips are in relation to the rest of the table. You say you're in 7th of 25. Are the top 5 at your table? Bottom 5? Where are they sitting in relation to you? In relation to the blinds? Have they been patient or agressive with the big or little stack?
95% of the time I would never limp/min raise w/ KK in early position as you're asking to get called by multiple players (a very bad result for KK). The 5% when I do is when there is a raise pre-flop almost every hand allowing me an opportunity to come back over the top.
Hope this helps!

PokerNome · Guest

What to do here (like other's have said) is a situational one. How many players are at your tabel, the betting style of players in and out of the blinds, and your stack size are all piece of information that you must consider. If you have 10x BB in your chipstack, going all-in wouldn't be a bad idea. Players may see you as trying to make a move with an ace or low pair, and call you with cards that you are a dominant favorit against. If you have 20+ BB then the decition depends on the looseness/tightness of a table. I will often limp into a pot when my table is agressive, because a limp-reraise is a commonly recognized sign of strength, and I'd much rather win the pot before the flop than take a flop and let an A hit. Also, with a table that has 2+ shortstacks I will limp, hoping the shortstacks make a move at the pot with weak holding such as K-Q Q-J and J-10.

Another thing to consider, is how good you play after the flop. If you have a solid read and good dicipline to fold with an ace lands, limping can be a strong play when the flop lands Q-high, and somebody calls all-in with top pair. Just remember to not get married to a hand, and be able to fold when you are obviously beat.

ganesh_s86 · Guest

I would typically raise 5x to all in depending upon the table.Never limp in with pocket kings or for that matter pocket aces as someone could catch a monster flop.Try bet something to bring up a heads up confrontation.

Twisted Evil

deadmoney314 · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: ...

Most of the time this deep in a tourney, a 3xbb has the same affect as a 5xbb. I would add that if you have previously been making 3xbb raises I would continue using a 3xbb raise because then someone with a middle to high pocket will re-raise which is exactly what you want. 80% vs. someone's entire stack.
Don't begin to vary your preflop raises with the strength of your hand in general. I would argue that even on a loose aggressive table which is more rare deep in MTT you should not limp because the aggressors will be raising whether or not you put in a 3xbb or limp. Most suited A's will not call a raise and a re-raise (even if the re-raise is from a LAG).
Remember, it is OK if you get 1 or 2 callers (1 preferable). Flop play for this hand is another thread altogether, though. Good luck

Irish Greg · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:45 am Post subject:

At this stage of the tournament I would raise 3xBB - 4xBB from early position for obvious reasons. Don't wanna let suited A10 or 33 see a flop where they could break you. Also this gives any agressive players a reason to push back at you if they hold something like 1010 or JJ and wana see you fold your preflop bet to their strong reraise. Limping can be risky if everone is holding marginal hands they wanna see a flop with (Q10 suited, 77, A4 suited, etc...) resulting in a 5 way pot which is very scary for your KK. If you under 10xBB in your stack, I would push here and hope for the best.

grumpy70 · High Card Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 4

i would continue to raise the same amount that u have been raising the whole tournament. if u dont get any callers, you at least won the blinds and antes that should be pretty high deep in the tournament as you described. if there are any short stacks at your table, you could possibly get action from them with any two cards trying to double up, or get action from a super aggressive player not giving you any respect

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