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iainlap · Two Pair Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 51 Location: Worcester

Just had an interesting hand at 1/2 NL

I had As 8s, board came down Ad 9s 4s. 1st oppo bet pot, 2nd called,me on button call

Turn came 8h

1st oppo bet pot, and just when I was going to reraise all in, 2nd oppo beat me to it and went all in. Pot now about $200, with $120 to call and me in a sandwich!! I actually folded, as did player 1, but was wondering if I had done the right thing? Having just written this out, I think maybe not!!
But grateful for advice

Tom OConnor · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:46 am Post subject:

You're not giving enough information. Did anyone raise/reraise preflop, how much? How much was bet on the flop, etc. Bet sizes will give us a lot more information as to whether or not it was good play on your behalf.

emoney_33 · Full House Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 199

this will not be a good play very often, only in certain situations. Like above poster said, we need more info.

But in general, you probably should have called.

iainlap · Two Pair Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 51 Location: Worcester

Noone raised preflop, and the bet after the flop was a pot sized one,

aztecgator · Two Pair Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 70

First, if your dollar figures are accurate, there were probably 5 limpers preflop, including the two blinds. After the flop, only three players saw the turn. That would put the pot at about $40. When player 1 bets the pot and player 2 goes all in, player 2 must have bet about $120 to get the pot size to $200. What information is missing is how much money you have and how much player 1 has and what type of player player 1 is (loose agresseive, tight aggressive, etc)

Lets consider a few hands player 1 might have given his willingness to limp in preflop and then lead out with pot sized bets on the flop and turn

Hands you can beat: Ax (where x is not a 9)
Hands you are losing to: A9, 99, 44

Lets consider a few hands player 2 might have given his willingness to limp in preflop and call a pot-sized bet on the flop and move all in on the turn.

Hands you are losing to but which his betting pattern doesn't make sense:

AA, 99, 44, A9

With AA he would have raised preflop and maybe with 99 too. With any of these hands, I would think he would have raised on the flop given that the board contained two suited cards.

Hands you are losing to and which his betting pattern makes sense:

<I can't think of any. I can't see him calling on the flop with 88.>

Hands he might have that you are beating:

98 (yeah maybe he called a pot sized bet with middle pair, who knows)
TJs (this is the hand in which I think his betting pattern makes most sense. Limp preflop, call on the flop with flush draw and semi-bluff on the turn with both flush and open-ended straight draws. Of course this type of play wouldn't make sense if he was generally a tight player. This is a play of someone who doesn't mind "gambling it up.")

So, I would not be that concerned about player 2 since I would have to believe that I am way ahead. I would be more concerned about player 1 coming over the top of me if I do call the all in. At that point I would have to believe that my two pair are probably no good and I would have to be rely on hitting a flush card that didn't pair the board to win the pot (or an 8 if he has A9, an A if he has 99, or an A or 8 if he has 44). I think your knowledge of player 1 is critical here in order for you to make the best decision. For example, the fact that he make pot sized bets on the flop and turn might suggest he didn't have flop top two or a set since a lot of players like to slow play these hands by making a smallish bet (or no bet) on the flop and hope that someones raises (or bets into) them so they can come back over the top. His betting pattern could suggest that he only has top pair in which case he probably is done with the hand.

In any case, I agree with the othe posters that more knowledge about stack sizes and the style of play is needed if you want to get better feedback.

jessejames71 · Full House Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 229

Alitte more info on the hands that have you beat if he has:

AA- you have 9 outs (flush )
99- you have 11 outs ( flush plus 2 aces)
44 you have 13 outs ( flush plus 2 aces ans 2 eigths)
A9 you have 9 outs ( flush )

And if he has A8 also you're frerolling on the flush.

its a very tight fold here and I hope you had some solid onfo on the other players.

goodtime · Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject:

Without any solid information on the players, I would make that call in a heartbeat. If you cannot make that call you should stick to Limit Hold'em or move down in stakes, because without any info, I would definitley make that call. Even against the worst possible scenario, you're about a 5-1 dog, that's not horribly bad, and it's HIGHLY unlikely that someone limped with AA. I could see a limp with 44 here, but even still you have outs.

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