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dunky23 · Straight Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 117

It was early in a mtt and I had doubled up already. The flop was AA7 with a 77 in my hand I had flopped sevens full of aces. I had called a small raise preflop with 77jjdouble suited. I think then I bet pot and he called. I immediately put him on axxx with no seven. He was a chip leader and had me covered. The turn came a jack now giving me jacks full of aces. I was 100% sure now he had axxx. I bet pot he called. The river came a 4. I checked to him because I figured he would fold to a bet if he hadn't filled up and if he bet I would call. But this check gave the rare chance that he had a4xx and would just check, thinking he might be beat, leaving me with a few chips. He then put me all in and i called. He showed a443 giving him aces full of 4's. He had hit his 6 outer with one card to come. I went from a great start in a mtt to on the rail. I went over this hand in my head for a while and now think the best play would have been to keep the pot as small as possible but never fold, no matter what. I have naturally come to name this tactic "going on a call line". I think this is a great play when a lot of things are perfectly in order, when you know your pretty far ahead but you have a chance to get sucked out on and know he has a big enough hand he wouldn't fold. This keeps you in the mtt no matter how bad the suck out. Of course this is only possible if you have a big stack relative to the blinds and the preflop raise wasn't large. Otherwise just calling would end up with you allin anyways, a terrible way to play the hand. The goal of this call line is to survive major suckouts. And you will win a big enough sized pot, if your hand IS good. This hand was an ideal canidate for this play because of the very rare chance he already had me beat. Only aaxx with the case ace, a7xx with the case 7 or ajxx with the case jack beat me here. I wasn't under any pressure to chip up. Two other ways to play this hand would have been to fold preflop or reraise preflop which, in this case, the latter would have pushed out the a443 and I win the hand easily. In my opinion the "call line" was the best move but since I was in no hurry to chip up folding to the small raise preflop would be in second. I realize this sounds xtremely defensive but I have won decent sized mtts playing this way with the chip lead for most the tourney. It was the 9:15pm $26 plo mtt on tilt. As most of you know there is a shortage of $20+ plo mtts between the the two sites. This one being my favorite so I really get mad when I go out early. My poll question is simple. Do you believe "going on a call line" in THIS hand was the best play? or Not? Feel free to respond with ideas of youur own that might be better.

ManilaDog · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:06 am Post subject:

what ?

xxPhilthxx · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:37 am Post subject:

Paragraphs are your friend.

Edit: Omaha is a **** flopped nutz rarly holds up to the river.

Flat calling hoping to improve, which is what they done, sorry if thats not the answer your looking for, my eyes exploded after the 1st 6 lines....

xyberman · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:41 am Post subject:

dunky23 · Straight Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 117

Obvioulsy a more skilled and organized author could have conveyed my question a lot more clearly. But I would take that skilled and organized author's lunch money at the plo tables. Hopefully some advanced plo players can understand my post and give me some constructive feedback. Poker is a game of chaos, and the best players are able to navigate with a clear head through that chaos. Maybe use that same thought in reading an obviously poorly written post that might be holding some valuble material.

dunky23 · Straight Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 117

I also play under the name thizzellew on pokerstars.

cardfish2 · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:51 am Post subject:

Until your post is rewritten, I expect zero well thought out responses.

I skimmed through and I think this is just a pot odds question. Do the math and that is your answer, although if you are defo better than the field just fold it and wait until you can get it all in as a big favorite.

francois8 · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:59 am Post subject:

I have no desire to turn the Omaha forum into a writing contest. Paragraphs would help, but it isn't that hard to read.

I hear you about keeping the pot small. Instead of check calling the whole, way I'd be in favor of betting either the flop of the turn but not both in a tournament game such as you were playing. In a cash game, I like the way you played it.... but that's not the question.

With that flop, he certainly has at least an ace to keep playing. I would have put him on an ace with at least 2 other broadway cards since he raised pf. Given that I'd definitely bet the flop. Any high card above your 7 and I'd be worried.

Since you have two Jacks, this limits the chance of him having the case Jack obviously, so that's a rather unique situation. If you didn't have both Jacks, I'm definitely worried... but since you did, I think another bet is fine here.

I understand that your question and your feelings behind asking it, but as you know the profit in PLO comes from making people pay to hit their draws when you're ahead in the hand.

With your opponent's hand I don't know what the hell he was thinking, if you had A7, or AJ, he was already drawing dead. He had no business in the hand after your second bet, and he got lucky imho. Once you're done being pissed about getting knocked out in such ridiculous fashion, I think you'll agree with your original play of the hand.

PS: This would have tilted the hell out of me, its probably best you weren't playing cash at the time!

bluestone10 · Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:14 am Post subject:

paragraphs are your friend

Warren Peace 18 · Pair Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Canada

Far too many times I have flopped a full house and bet hard until the end only to be over-boated on the river by a guy who flopped a set... twice just this week!! I had one hand a couple of days ago where I had 67 and the flop came 677. My opponent had the case 7 and two overcards to my 6. The river J gave my opponent 7's full of J's.

If I flop a full house that includes Aces, and there was no raise preflop, then I bet the pot on the flop and see what happens. A call means that my full house may indeed be vulnerable. If the flop is a rainbow, and there are no straight draws on the board, then I can reasonably assume that my opponent has an Ace or one or two overpair. And depending on the player, there is just no folding a set... whether that's weak or strong remains to be seen lol

Hope that helped...

ManilaDog · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:56 am Post subject:

poker is NOT a game of chaos.............where did that come from ?

Craven1977 · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:00 am Post subject:

got straightflushed the last 2 days, when flopping the nutflush ...
think i only had this at NLHE 1 time before, in omaha twice in 2 days Shocked

xx monster xx · High Card Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

The jack would definately scare me. If he does have an ace, it is possible he has AAxx or AJxx. Lots of hands that have an ace also have 2 or 3 other face cards.

If he had AKQJ, he had a 36% chance to fill up to a better boat. I realize he didn't have that, but its just something to keep in mind. Maybe check it down after he calls your flop bet AND the jack hits.

But I think it was more due to just bad luck on the turn.

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