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mathman1115 · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: BAP - Logistics and Mathematics

There have been several posts and threads lately about how a BAP works. I'd like to shed some light on it, explain some of the mathematics, and give some advice to both sides of a BAP. Part of this post is opinion related i guess, so feel free to comment and i can edit, and perhaps maybe we can get this to be a sticky.

Also, please read clamper's sticky if you plan to run a BAP. It states some general rules that are very important.

What is a BAP?
A BAP (or Buy A Piece) is an investment that one person makes into another player. It is usually done for an MTT, but can be done for SnGs, cash games, etc. as well. The purpose of a BAP is two-fold. For the player, it allows them to reduce variance by putting up less or no money into whatever they are playing. For the staker, it allows them the opportunity to invest in a strong player who has an edge in whatever they are playing. For the staker, it's the equivalent of the stock market. There are no guarantees, but you have control of where you put your money, and a smart staker can earn lots of profits by investing in the right people.

What information is necessary to run a BAP?
If you meet the criteria for this forum to run a BAP, you should let your stakers know the following information:
1. What you will be playing
2. What the total stake is
3. What % you are offering and whether or not stakeback is included
4. How many shares you are offering, how much each one costs,
and what % each share is worth
5. When you will be playing (and how long if necessary)
6. If/How additional money will be split (such as jackpots, KOs, bounties
rakeback, bonuses, etc.)
7. Frequent updates to your BAP, including who you have received stake from, where you stand each tournament/session (if its a cash game, SnG, or multi MTT BAP), and when you plan to return profits if you have any. Also, hand histories, although optional, are a good way to "prove" to your stakers you are indeed playing what you said you would be playing.

In addition, you may want to supply some stats from OPR or sharkscope beforehand, especially if you are newer to the forum. Keep in mind it will be hard to run a BAP if you are unknown, even if your stats are good, because trust is a big factor in a BAP.

I'm involved in a BAP, how much can i win?
In a BAP, the person running it will declare the %s before it begins. As an example, we will say that someone running a BAP is offering 70/30+SB. This means that the investor(s) receive their stakeback initially if there is a cash, and then investors receive 70% of the profits, with the player earning 30% of the profits. In addition, that 70% for the investors is proportionally split up between them depending on how many shares were bought by each staker.
Here is a numerical example: Suppose a player runs a BAP for a $50+5 tournament, offering 70/30+SB, divided into 11 $5 shares. Then each share is (hypothetically) worth 5/55 of the total stake, or 1/11. However, each share is (actually) worth (1/11)*(0.7)=6.36% of the total profits because the stakers are given 70%. If the player cashes for $225, then the $55 is first returned amongst all of the stakers, leaving a profit of $225-$55=$170. The player would earn 30% of that, or (0.3)*170=$51. The stakers would earn 6.36% of that, or (.0636)*(170)=$10.81, for each $5 share they purchased from the player. Sometimes the math can get a bit messy, but taking your %s to two decimal places will guarantee that profits are correct to the nearest cent. In some cases, rounding will cause totals to be off by a cent or two, so you'll have to manage that as well.

How does Stakeback work if i play multiple MTTs?
This would be up to the player, and would have to be determined before the BAP starts.
One option is to allow each share to be a proportional stake to each tournament. For example, if a player runs a BAP for both a $100+9 tournament and a $200+16 tournament (total $325) and sells $10 shares, then each share would have a stakeback proportional to each tournament. A cash in the $100+9 tournament would give a SB of
(109/325)*(10)=$3.35. Thus the SB for the $200+16 tournament would be the remaining $6.65.
The other option, which is a little more appealing to the staker(s), is to accumulate total winnings from all tournaments, return the stake first, and then split the profits. Using the same example, if a player cashed for $250 in the $100+9 tourney but failed to cash in the other, then the player would not get anything out of it because the total winnings do not exceed the total stake. Each staker would then receive a portion (per share) of their original stakeback. It all amounts to the player not receiving any profits until the stakers are returned their stake if prize money is won.
Multiple MTT BAPs can be more attractive simply because the risk is not as high (nor is the reward, which is the disadvantage). Becuase the player is playing multiple MTTs, there is more of a chance to cash.

Can I BAP myself?
Yes, in fact, stakers usually prefer this. By BAP of yourself, you give your stakers the confidence that you will play to the best of your ability, since you are playing with some of your own money as well. If you BAP someone you trust, this shouldn't be an issue anyway, but it is still an added incentive.
If you run a BAP at 70/30+SB, then, as the player, you are entitled to the 30% for simply being the player plus a portion of the 70% for being the staker as well, depending on how many shares of yourself you purchase.

What can i do to get interest in my BAP?
First all, once again, be sure you meet the minimum forum criteria before attempting to run a BAP. One of the most important requirements is that you be a well known, trusted, contributing member. If you are having trouble getting BAPed, throw in some incentives to your stakers. For example, you may cover the entry fees of your MTTs without taking a % of the stakers share, or you may give your rakeback to your stakers. Perhaps offering higher %s such as 80/20 may entice some backers. Again, BAPing yourself is also helpful.
One thing you should keep in mind when running a BAP (especially if you are being fully staked) is that you are not providing the opportunity, you are getting it. A chance to win money with little or no risk benefits you more than it does the stakers. Thus, the stakers are in charge. Sure, you will request the stake, say what you want to play, write out your guidelins, etc. people who agree these things will stake you. But any decisions made after that should be discussed with the stakers, such as whether to stop earlier than anticipated, what to do if returns are less than the minimum transfer, etc.

Is a BAP just about the money?
Well, that's just a matter of opinion. I'm not gonna lie, i like money. As someone who has run a BAP before, I loved the chance at winning money for a smaller risk. But as someone who also stakes others in a BAP, i enjoy the excitement of it. I like rooting for my friends on the forum to begin with, but knowing that i win if they win is even more of a reason to root for them. It's fun and exciting, and (as clamper states) it brings a sense of community to the forum. I was fortunate to turn a nice profit in the BAP i ran, and i've put back about half of my profits into other BAPs run by forumers. I have to say, profits or no profits, it's just so damn fun!

Ok, i guess that about covers it. Happy BAPing Very Happy

LostOstrich · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject:

Obv sticky plz.

lenny_bruce · Message Board Junkie Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 1018

Good stuff.

nimbus · Message Board Junkie Joined: 23 Feb 2007 Posts: 1312

Thank you for this.

IABoomer · Moderator Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 4371

Mods can't sticky, but I've asked Rick to handle it. Nicely written up.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject:

Nice post imb.

IABoomer · Moderator Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 4371

chillbot · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject:

There is good BAP info in my BAP thread. Perhaps another sticky is in order in order to help the n00bs...

TranViet00 · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject:

Never had an idea what BAP was but this explains everything.

californiachamp · Banned Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Posts: 394

I am considering doing a BAP , never been staked before, never needed to but the idea seems interesting and I have pretty good sharkscope #'s and I was going to write a post asking somebody to explain exactly how this works and this post was VERY informative and thorough.

Excellent job!

shevykittle · Banned Joined: 28 May 2008 Posts: 42

yes this does help out alot....i would like for people 2 stake me but i have not played in any mtts or tourneys on this new acc. old 1 got banned bc me and a friend was both playin on the same computer and ftp thought that i was runnin 2 accs.

ThunderCrew · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:34 am Post subject:

Great post mathman thanks alot. Have had a few people mention this to me from railbirds and here in chat rail and was not sure in all what it was.

I knew in general it meant a staker / backer who would recieve percentage of the winnings etc , but didn't know exactly what the workings of it was. I may think about some of these myself in the near future for mtt garuntees or the 90 and 180 men games Embarassed

tracysanders · Message Board Junkie Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 1270

very informative thank you for being so specific

1-sux-at-poker · High Card Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Posts: 11

thank you very helpful

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