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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3699
Location: griiiiinding
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 Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| mathman1115 wrote: |
| renegades8 wrote: |
| Am I wrong in thinking that all calling here does is allow either opponent to get away from some hands OTF that they would otherwise get it in with PF? |
No, because that's exactly what i said in my original response. |
I guess I was too busy lolling at " I don't really like playing AA three way with the pot already this big." |
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mathman1115
Wizard of Odderation
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 3085
Location: Land of the Fightin' Phillies
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| renegades8 wrote: |
| mathman1115 wrote: |
| renegades8 wrote: |
| Am I wrong in thinking that all calling here does is allow either opponent to get away from some hands OTF that they would otherwise get it in with PF? |
No, because that's exactly what i said in my original response. |
I guess I was too busy lolling at " I don't really like playing AA three way with the pot already this big." |
All in preflop 3 way all in is just fine, but that won't happen here. If Rob is expecting MP to shove, good luck with that, because PokerJess is right, he won't unless he has KK or AA, both of which he would pay off a PF shove anyway, so expect to see a flop one way or the other by just cold calling. AA loses value once a flop is seen, and it loses even more value post flop with two opponents. We have an unfoldable hand at this point, whereas our opponents do not (assuming neither also has AA), so we are just giving them opportunity to stack us if they outflop us and fold if they do not.
So you keep lolling or whatever you want to do renegades, because you are another one in this section that seems to know everything, and has no problem berrating others when you disagree. You simply got called out for ignorance (which i only pointed out for reference) and responded by shoving your mistake aside and just poking fun of something else. Perhaps you don't even bother to read the other posts since you have all the answers.
I say again this is why this part of the forum has gone to **** as fire eyes has stated. He's right, so i'll just stay out of the NL section since you and a select few seem to have it under control |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 8177
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Mathman,
I don't really see how renegades made a mistake/was ignorant because he asked if he was wrong for thinking something we thought. The "lolling" comment was unnecessary, but so was a lot of the rant you followed it with. This is a poker strategy forum, whining about personal issues has no place here. If you want to do that, handle it through PMs. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3699
Location: griiiiinding
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| mathman1115 wrote: |
| renegades8 wrote: |
| Am I wrong in thinking that all calling here does is allow either opponent to get away from some hands OTF that they would otherwise get it in with PF? |
No, because that's exactly what i said in my original response. |
I guess a better reply to this might have been to comment on how this comes off as being somewhat arrogant. That's mostly why I replied like that, which you seemed to blow out of proportion.
Whatever though dude, I'm not trying to start **** or anything.
[Oh no you don't! The profanity filter is there for a reason. /Riddim] |
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francois8
Full House
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 158
Location: Conshohocken, PA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
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I think two re-raises after your initial raise with aces is the best thing going. I think popping in and going all in makes the most sense as you'll likely get at least one caller anyway. 6-person game, people will play a little looser. But you had the opportunity to get it all in preflop with a decent pot already there. I'd vote "too fancy" to go with your initial title of your post.
I have a note next to my monitor reminding me not to get "too cute" with hands like this. |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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I actually like a CC pf because it entices the MP to overshove with worse than what he'd call with. People tend to get shove happy to try to force a HU all in pot when they can. I'd be very suprised if this guy's shoving range after we CC is exactly KK+. I'd expect to get shoved on by QQ, JJ, and AK too, but he might possibly fold that stuff if we shove over the 4 bettor. This is especially true with the SB in the pot and how wide his range is. MP has to think that our 4 bet calling range is wider than normal, which makes him more apt to shove his hands.
I mean, MP is pretty much in a tough spot either way with JJ or QQ here, but I think he's more likely to make a mistake if we CC rather than shove. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 8177
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| drtre1987 wrote: |
| This is especially true with the SB in the pot and how wide his range is. MP has to think that our 4 bet calling range is wider than normal, which makes him more apt to shove his hands. |
MP has only been at the table for a few hands, so he'll probably treat SB as an unknown. |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| oh, missed that part. |
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GoldenDomer9
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1963
Location: CAP tbls
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| Your coldcall looks really strong anyway, so I'd just get it in pre. Having SB miss the flop and not get it in with a hand he would've called a shove PF with sucks. |
I disagree that a coldcall here looks really strong, at least vs. an unknown, which I assume Rob is to the opponents here. I know you have a lot of $50NL 6-max experience Riddim, so if you wouldn't mind elaborating a tad I would greatly appreciate it. See, in my experience here @ $50NL, I see QQ, JJ, 10 10 or AK quite often.
Maybe I just have to clarify what "really strong" actually means. I guess I took it to mean that he has AA here frequently? In a general sense, a range of JJ+ is really strong, but in an isolated spot having a hand as "poor" as 10 10 or JJ can really alter decision making.
This all comes back to my opinion that I don't mind the coldcall to induce a shove by worse from MP, because imo Rob looks (relatively) weak here with tens or jacks, which is based on what I find from unknowns at this level. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 8177
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't mean really strong as in AA only, but more that his range is really strong and probably something like QQ+ and possibly AK. Even if they haven't been around for long they've probably not seen hero do anything indicating that he's retarded, and non-retarded people rarely coldcall 4-bets without a big hand. Basically we're going to look super strong no matter what we have and shoving at least gets the money in pre and makes our hand a bit more likely to be AK.
It's a weird spot though and I can't remember actually seeing a somewhat reasonable player ever calling a 4-bet like this. I'd be much more inclined to agree with your range if hero was coldcalling a 3-bet, in which case I think it's something like JJ-QQ a ton and also a few worse/better hands if the player in question is bad. |
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