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Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8176 Location: Sweden

2.1 means he's not a loose/passive fish, but it's still on the passive side given his VPIP. Even most TAGs with an AF of over 4 will usually be calling with those hands here if they're somewhat thinking. Raising them against a non-drooler just tends to lead to folding out all worse hands and getting shoved on by draws/better hands. This is especially true at 50NL where the games aren't all that aggro and the regs/TAGs tend to be straightforward but still somewhat competent. Note: Most of this was more of a general example, since villain in this hand obviously isn't thinking very hard.

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2131

I don't know how much 6 max you have played mathman, but I rarely see people 3 betting 99-TT. And when I do see it, it comes from a 28/24 type player with a 15+ 3 bet %, not a 19/11 player.

Also, Rob, this is a little off topic, but I think you need to keep better notes on players. You have over 1000 hands on this individual player, but you have no reads. I rarely have anyone ever have 300+ hands on anyone without some sort of notes written. And I often get notes on players with less than 75 hands. I don't know if you are playing too many tables, not knowing what to write down, being lazy or whatever, but you can really improve your game by simply taking notes on all of the regulars.

You don't have to copy and paste every HH you have into the notes box or anything, but simply adding that you saw him "3 bet light against button opener", "got it in with AK pf", or "c/r low pp on dry boards" can really help you out whenever you get into those tough spots. If you have any questions about what exactly to write down, let me know. I can give some better examples (and I'm sure others can too).

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8176 Location: Sweden

drtre,

Say after me: "DATAMINING". It's also very easy to not have seen anything spectacular from players like the villains in this thread over 1k hands.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject:

yeah tre this is the first time I've played with villain. I datamine pretty much around the clock so I have stats to use. I always include any reads I have in a post but often times I just don't have any because having reads makes the hand that much easier to play thus I don't have to post it. I commonly write notes when I'm playing such as hands they get it in with PF or on certain types of flops. I often write the way they played a certain hand on a certain board like c/c three streets with TT on a board: K9823r etc. I'm open to suggestions to improve and new ideas of things to keep track of. I do admit I am sometimes lazy and don't take as many notes as I could but I try to do it as much as I can. I've also started to save all my difficult hands into a word file with relevant info instead of just posting it while I'm playing so I can first reevaluate if it's worth posting and second include more info etc than I can when I'm rushed for time by playing.

mathman1115 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject:

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8176 Location: Sweden

Constantly deviating from the standard play just out of paranoia seems like a pretty bad idea. Most people aren't going to remember that you had the opportunity to take a note on them the last session you played together, and even if they do they're usually not going to assume that you actually took that note.

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2131

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2131

rob, i didn't know that you datamined and this was your first time playing him. my appologies. it just seems like you have a lot of threads with no real reads. and just so you know, i'm just trying to help out. i'm not trying to point any fingers at you or anything.

and i do like taking notes on hands like the TT c/c on kxxxx board like you said. that is a good type of thing to look for. one thing i'd specifically look for in your spot is what people do with certain hands in 3 bet pots. coming for FR, you probably haven't had too much 3 betting experience. and i know that 3 bet pots was the hardest thing for me to adjust to when i made my transition to 6 max.

so i'd look specifically for what opponents are doing in 3 bet pots with AK and QQ. if someone is 4 betting and you have QQ 100bb deep, are you staking off? having notes on what players do with AK in a spot like this is absolutely critical. if they like to flat 3 bets with AK, and only 4 bet QQ+ pf, then you are going to want to fold QQ in this spot. but if he stacks off with AK, then you want to get it in. that is one of the biggest things i look for. the same can be said for what the villain does with QQ when having AK too.

also, looking for what people are 3 betting with is pretty important too. if they are 3 betting AJ, KJ, 65s, JTs, or even T9o type of hands, then you would want to know that to help determine their range postflop.

i also look to see what people are doing otf. since i cbet a lot (and you probably do too), i like to see how people play against me otf. if they are c/r, are they doing it with air, top pair, sets, draws? i want to know what they are capable of doing this with. do they float? what hands do they float with? how do they play the turn after floating? some opponents (especially at 50nl where you are at) play so straight forward in the same style, that it is pretty unbelievable. there are so many people who you can put on a very specific range just based on their flop actions. for example, there seem to be a lot of players that will c/c with top pair, c/r with draws and marginal hands, and c/f hands that miss the flop completely.

there are obvisouly endless posibillities of what to take notes on, but there are the most important things i can think of at the moment. hope this helps out some.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:05 am Post subject:

Thanks for the detailed post tre. Smile

Yeah I agree that the increased 3betting frequency was a major difference. I have been noting what hands people 3bet/4bet with and probably the biggest thing I try to note is like you said do they get it in PF with AK because that does make a huge difference in how I play against them. One of the things I've been trying to work on more is taking notes on players in hands I'm not in the pot with them. I sometimes tend to just focus on the hands I play with opponents but I'm now watching big hands between other players and noting how they played.

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