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RunnerJohn · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: Omaha Hi/Lo Strategy Question

I have read a lot of poker books, and several of them have chapters on Omaha Poker. Currently, I am reading "How To Win At Omaha High-Low Poker" by Mike Cappelletti. One thing that interests me about this game is that, according to the authors I've read (including Matusow and Hellmuth, among others), you are a lot less likely to experience a bad beat in Omaha. I'm not usually one to cry about bad beats, but last night I was all-in with AA and got called by two guys, K5 and KJ. Instead of tripling up, I watched them hit King high straights on the river to split the pot. That left me speachless.

So, this morning I took a shot at Omaha Hi/Lo. I haven't played this game before, so I started with a $2.25 SNG. I would like to know if I'm thinking correctly in this game. Here's one hand, up to the flop. I'd like some opinions on what I should have been thinking here. Then I'll post the rest and tell you what I was thinking.

For this, there is one extra piece of information you might consider: I watched several hands and everyone seems to be playing the high side and ignoring low.

Thanks in advance.

Here's the hand:

Full Tilt Poker Game #7479821596: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (Turbo) (56904769), Table 1 - 40/80 - Pot Limit Omaha H/L - 12:27:33 ET - 2008/08/02
Seat 2: dgray17280 (885)
Seat 3: resn77 (2,970)
Seat 5: Cruellaclo (1,170)
Seat 6: evps (1,300)
Seat 7: wyleecoyote7 (1,460)
Seat 8: RunnerJohn (1,980)
Seat 9: GUNNER_A (3,735)
RunnerJohn posts the small blind of 40
GUNNER_A posts the big blind of 80
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RunnerJohn [Ks 2s 3h Th]
dgray17280 folds
resn77 has 15 seconds left to act
resn77 calls 80
Cruellaclo folds
evps folds
wyleecoyote7 raises to 160
RunnerJohn calls 120
GUNNER_A calls 80
resn77 calls 80
*** FLOP *** [Jd 9s Qd]

cardfish2 · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject:

1. Fold that hand pre flop. I wouldn't even limp in with it.

2. You got lucky and hit the nuts. Protect your hand here and bet the pot. People love to chase their draws and their is a flush draw and a gut shot draw to a higher straight possible.

cardfish2 · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject:

Also, you have to be very careful playing for just the low. You would be surprised how many times you will have the nut low with rags for a high and your opponent also has the nut low with a good high hand. He gets 1/2 the pot for the high and you only split the other half.

cubbies760 · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject:

That's the type of hand that I really like to play while HU, but I hate it multi-handed. Depending on how many people enter the pot PF, you may be drawing very slim, if not virtually dead against 2-3 opponents. Both of your flush draws are not necessarily good if they hit, and I don't like playing it OOP even if your could enter the pot cheaply. Therefore, fold PF.

As for your low, you need a flop with an Ace in it, otherwise your low is useless.

As played, bet pot to either take it down, or to make your opponents pay to chase their draws. Occasionally, I'll check/call if I think I can see a blank turn fairly cheap (planning to bet pot OTT), or check/pot raise if I think the others will take a nice sized stab (to make him get most of his chips in OTF).

SFBuc · Royal Flush Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 615

Your hand is good for now. I too would bet the pot but I wouldn't be surprised if someone calls chasing. If any Ace, Ten or Diamond come then you could be a dead duck. There is no possibility for a low in this hand so your 23 is pretty much useless now. I am pretty sure you bet out and someone chase the pot to win. That tends to happen in the low levels of Omaha HL.

RunnerJohn · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:48 am Post subject:

I've figured out that I definately made a bad call preflop. I kind of think I would have been OK making the call in the SB if no one had raised, but when someone raised, I should have folded. The reason I made that call was the 23. I had realized that no one else was paying attention to low hands at all, so if I just made a qualified low hand, I had a good chance at at least half the pot. That strategy worked for this game, because I won the tournament. I played most hands and at least split the majority of them. However, I know that's not a good strategy for Omaha Hi/Lo. I just happened to play my first SNG against a group of fish, I think.

Anyway, I liked the 23 for the low, but felt the KT was marginal at the very best for hi, and I know you need to be able to make both to call preflop. I don't understand quite yet how good I should expect being double-suited to be, though. That helped my decision.

I played the hand wrong even after the flop. There were two guys in the hand and I had the nut straight, but there were a lot of better hands they could be drawing for. I needed to bet the pot and see if I could get them both to fold right there. Instead, I bet half and only one folded. It paid off for me in the end, though. I was just lucky.

Matusow says there aren't many bad beats in Omaha. I think wyleecoyote7 would disagree. He started with KKA2 and I beat him. He would have to call that a bad beat.

Anyway, I've got a LOT to learn about this game, but it's got my interest.

Here's the rest of the hand (After the flop, there was 640 in the pot):

*** FLOP *** [Jd 9s Qd]
RunnerJohn bets 320
GUNNER_A has 15 seconds left to act
GUNNER_A calls 320
resn77 folds
wyleecoyote7 calls 320
*** TURN *** [Jd 9s Qd] [6h]
RunnerJohn bets 1,500, and is all in
GUNNER_A folds
wyleecoyote7 calls 980, and is all in
RunnerJohn shows [Ks 2s 3h Th]
wyleecoyote7 shows [Kh Ad Kd 2d]
Uncalled bet of 520 returned to RunnerJohn
*** RIVER *** [Jd 9s Qd 6h] [8h]
RunnerJohn shows a straight, King high, for high
wyleecoyote7 shows a pair of Kings, for high
RunnerJohn wins the pot (3,560) with a straight, King high
wyleecoyote7 stands up
The blinds are now 50/100
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,560 | Rake 0
Board: [Jd 9s Qd 6h 8h]
Seat 2: dgray17280 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: resn77 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Cruellaclo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: evps didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: wyleecoyote7 (button) showed [Kh Ad Kd 2d] and lost with HI: a pair of Kings
Seat 8: RunnerJohn (small blind) showed [Ks 2s 3h Th] and won (3,560) with HI: a straight, King high
Seat 9: GUNNER_A (big blind) folded on the Turn

Dashir · Pair Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 47

Few things to remember.

No starting Omaha hand is that good if it doesn't hit the flop.

Secondly, draws rule. You want to be drawing to the nuts on one end. With that flop, someone else could easily have the same straight and be drawing to a bigger one. In other words free-rolling you. For example, AKT has four outs to draw out on you with no risk. AKQT has seven. Combine one of those with an A high flush draw and you can see how vulnerable your hand is.

Having flopped the temporary nuts you need to bet, but you also need to be wary, not tossing all your money in. That's the real weakness with playing that had in the first place. It can cost you a lot of chips when it hits, since your KT has no support so you have no re-draws.

cardfish2 · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject:

Dashir makes some good points but I am going to disagree with him about not tossing all your money in. I think you want to get all your money in as fast as possible. It's true that someone could be freerolling you but since this is a turbo, opportunities like this don't present themself often enough to slow down.

cubbies760 · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject:

RunnerJohn · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:18 am Post subject:

I really appreciate all the advise. I'm seeing that picking the right starting hand is very important in this game, but at any time the next card can countefeit your hand. That makes it pretty interesting (and frustrating).

If you're interested, here's how I'm doing so far: I've played 13 Hi/Lo SNGs. I've cashed in three (won two and third in the other). I've spent $48.75 to play and my cashes have added to $45.00. I've started out a little negative, but I started worse than this with Texas Hold 'Em, so I'm confident I'll do better as I learn.

StevieWard · Message Board Junkie Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 1566

Good post.

craigo6x · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject:

This is an interesting hand. You've got a suited K, two broadway and two wheel cards. You have a limper. You also have more than the straing stack so you can gamble a little. I probably make this call preflop. I can then evaluate on the flop and decide whether to proceed or not.

As it turns out, you are the favorite in the hand, but not by much. The fact that he holds one of his outs reduces his equity a little, but there is no getting him off this hand. I think potting the flop is a huge mistake.

You can be in a chop situation without redraws. You don't have to worry about chopping with a low hand, but with big cards you have to worry about AK and diamonds, both of which your opponent had. In addition, if the board pairs you are sunk.

Potting the flop probably commits you to the hand and with two to come, you can give your stack away and be out on a hand that's as good as its going to get. In situations like this, I prefer to attack the turn if it's safe.

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