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drewg22
Flush
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 139
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 Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: 18 Man vs 9 Man |
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I started tracking all my games since July 4 and I know I don't have enough games for the ROI to be solid yet, but I was looking for some feedback regarding how to succeed at 9 Man vs 18 Man. I seem to be doing a lot better on 18 man and I am wondering if there is something I missing in the 9 man game
First my stats:
I have played 27 each of 9 Man and 18 Man. The buy-ins have been a mix of $5 and $2 but the majority have been at the $2 level.
9 Man
ITM 9/27 for 33%
2 1st
4 2nd
3 3rd
Total ROI= -32%
18 Man
ITM 9/27 for 33%
4 1st
1 2nd
1 3rd
3 4th
Total ROI= +74%
Anyone have any suggestions? I did read the link posted by Nilgiri. http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com/viewtopic.php?t=31750
This seems to have helped with the 9 man game but I was wondering if anyone else some good ideas. |
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cardfish2
Royal Flush
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 648
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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That's a pretty broad question, but I will say that a tighter style tends to work better for me in the 9 man games while a more aggressive approach is more appropriate in the 18 mans.
Also, a good player in the 18 man games will have a higher ROI than a good player in the 9 mans. It makes sense that it would work this way since you need a higher ROI to offset the additional time required to play an 18.
If you have more specific questions, go ahead and ask. |
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drewg22
Flush
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| cardfish2 wrote: |
That's a pretty broad question, but I will say that a tighter style tends to work better for me in the 9 man games while a more aggressive approach is more appropriate in the 18 mans.
Also, a good player in the 18 man games will have a higher ROI than a good player in the 9 mans. It makes sense that it would work this way since you need a higher ROI to offset the additional time required to play an 18.
If you have more specific questions, go ahead and ask. |
Thanks for the response. Not sure what to ask because I am not sure what I don't know.
Funny thing is at this level, I have not seen a huge time difference in the 9 Man and the 18 Man. I seem to finish both when I win or get to the money in about 50 mins to 85 mins.
I think at this point I will play another 23 of each and review the results at 50 again.
I did tighten up in the 9 man after reading the write-up Nilgiri linked. Since that time, I have moneyed in 3 out 6 and my ROI is -10% compared to -32% overall. So at least it moving the right direction. |
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dcdoorknob
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 1128
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| You don't have a good enough sample size to draw any conclusions at all really yet. I don't know that they are really super-different honestly, except for some slightly different dynamics on the bubble. I do agree that theoretically a higher ROI is achievable in the 18 mans than the 9 mans due to the payout structure. |
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drewg22
Flush
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| dcdoorknob wrote: |
| You don't have a good enough sample size to draw any conclusions at all really yet. I don't know that they are really super-different honestly, except for some slightly different dynamics on the bubble. I do agree that theoretically a higher ROI is achievable in the 18 mans than the 9 mans due to the payout structure. |
In your opinion, what is a good sample size?
I have seen people post anything from 100 to 1,000 are needed. |
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cardfish2
Royal Flush
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 648
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| A lot of people say 1000 (especially on 2+2) but I think that is too many. IMHO about 300 will give you a good idea. Check out your graph on sharkscope. If it is a mostly straight line then 100 to 200 is probably enough. If it is way up down up down then 1000 is probably not enough. |
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billy_rayle
Three of a Kind
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| yfdgbd |
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JDizzzle72
Royal Flush
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 528
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| billy_rayle wrote: |
| yfdgbd |
+1
On another note, 1,000 games is a great number to determine a fairly accurate ROI, but I'd say ~250 is a solid starting spot. Once you can approximate a fairly average slop to the overall graph that isn't too far off from any one point (given extreme up/downswings) it's fairly accurate. Also, for turbos, about twice the games are necessary to derive an accurate expected ROI due to increased variance. |
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