Online Poker Forum at Full Tilt Poker

LostOstrich · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:42 am Post subject:

Quite simply. The rules of the site state that all table chat should be conducted in English. If a player announces his hand, in a foreign language that he knows is understood by some other players at the table but not necessarily by all, it is without doubt collusion and illegal.

Q.E.D.

feihua · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:20 am Post subject:

So you are not saying if the player announces the hand and everyone understands him, it is not illegal and collusion is within doubt?

LO, there is nothing simple about it. All table chat being conducted in English is outdated and one of those things that will be changed as time comes along, much as the no chat feature was brought into play.

It doesn't make sense to be chasing off a large market by being stern about this rule, and FT is never going to enforce it as much as it is demanded.

LostOstrich · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:30 am Post subject:

feihua · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:36 am Post subject:

#5 Players and observers may not discuss a hand until the action is complete. Discussing cards discarded or hand possibilities is not allowed.

Someone say HAMMER.

Make sure you do it in English, or it is against the rules.

#8 Full Tilt Poker prohibits the use of external player assistance programs (EPA Programs) which are designed to provide users with an unfair advantage over their opponents. Full Tilt Poker defines external to mean computer software (other than the Full Tilt Poker game client), and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g., web sites and subscription services). Full Tilt Poker defines an unfair advantage as a user accessing or compiling information on other players beyond that which the user has personally observed through his or her own game play.

So much for looking up stats. Good thing Official Poker Rankings and Sharkscope is in English, though.

I mean, c'mon. What is number eight about?!?

#11 All conversation at an active ring game or tournament table must be conducted in English except in country specific tournaments, where players and observers may chat in English or the primary language of that country (e.g. in tournaments limited to players in Germany, players may chat in German or English). Only chat in English and the primary language of that country are permitted in such tournaments. In all other cases, chat is limited specifically to English. Any other chat in languages besides English may result in the suspension of a user�s chat privileges.

I have to check and see if there is a Swiss tournament. Just for extra laffs.

#17 Full Tilt Poker reserves the right to modify or revise the Rules at any time, without notice to Players. Such amendments will become effective immediately upon being listed on the FulltiltPoker.com website. It is the Players' sole responsibility to review the Rules and Policies, and remain abreast of any changes.

THAT is the one that means a lot of this is up in the air and one should be prepared for changes.

As much as I support using English to play the game, the number of users playing the game complaining about other players not abiding by the terms is quite a minority to the ones ignoring the rules. That is more than simply put, it is a fact.

Bottom line is that in the conversation that started this thread, the guy is saying he has aces when he is questioned if he has queens. Even to English speakers, it was kind of obvious that par de a vs. par de q means playing pocket eights is probably not a good idea.

It doesn't have a lot to do with the language at all, does it?

drkato: oops
drkato has 15 seconds left to act
drkato: big hammer
drkato: lol
drkato calls 390
big_unit7 shows [5d Qd]
drkato shows [7h 2h]
*** FLOP *** [Ad 2d 7s]
*** TURN *** [Ad 2d 7s] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [Ad 2d 7s 9s] [Js]
big_unit7 shows Ace Queen high
drkato shows two pair, Sevens and Twos
drkato wins the pot (1,800) with two pair, Sevens and Twos

EDITED FOR FINAL THOUGHT:

You know, if the government is going to have regulation brought in on either a federal, local or private basis to allow this to be played freely in the States without concern, I bet chat is one of the first things to go.

Wouldn't English only make it somewhat discriminatory?

Warnings and guidelines are one thing in a casino where there is a dealer and action can be taken immediately.

The oversight regarding online poker just isn't the same.

Perhaps the Canadian version could demand all talk must be done in both English and French?

drewg22 · Flush Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 139

feihua · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:58 am Post subject:

drkato · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:27 am Post subject:

I think there has to be a lot of gray area for these types of rules. As translated, I don't think the two players necessarily cheated. Sometimes if I am running bad I will tell my opponent "I have THEM", or something somewhat veiled, but easily understandable as to just take the pot there, because I feel a crack coming. This is probably a rules violation if followed to the letter, but in the spirit of the game I think not doing it is more of a guideline.

On PokerStars, I reported two colluders who never even spoke. Just watching their moronic actions once we were 3-handed (and one started with only 85 chips) was completely convincing enough to declare colusion and cheating. I forwarded the game info to Stars' customer support, and sure enough, they were both banned permenantly as I knew they would be. I went from 3rd to 1st, and 4th and 5th were given 2nd and 3rd money respectively.

drewg22 · Flush Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 139

Wayniac · Forum Pro Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 617

If they were actually cheating, they should be perma-banned from the site and have their funds taken... not because they were telling each other their hands, but because they were stupid enough to do it in the chat window where everyone could read it.

Anyway, let us know what the outcome is.

feihua · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:58 am Post subject:

Yeah, I am interested as well.

Just out of...........interest.

How online is handled is tremendously different from the live game, as online IS tremendously different from the live game.

I made a recent post where I gave away that I had the straight flush draw, then gave away that I filled it, and then kept trying to get the other guy to fold just because it was comical, and couldn't get it done. I have had hands where I announced a royal being held by your's truly and couldn't get the other to fold.

Indeed, it is all very gray. Er, grey............nope, gray......grey.

There are obvious multiaccounts still happening, even to the point that site support comes on and says "GL guys."

There are at least 100MBs a day of logs where languages other than English being used in "inappropriate settings" happen.

There is all sorts of bad juju happening.

I used to score lots of notches on my chips citing racism and getting bans, even permanent ones.

These days, I have a bit of fondness for the times someone tells me I need a vag and I can reply "you are my vag."

Official Poker Rankings has updated to be rather comprehensive when it comes to Full Tilt but the rules says the information should be ignored. Depending on the perspective, this might be more wise than a warning.

My opinion is that if FTP allowed chat only when it is your turn, much of this problem would go away. It has shown the ability to do it with a HU all-in situation. The and/or/but not/if would be easy to apply across the board.

Otherwise, you have cases like the moron below:

Full Tilt Poker Game #7198474648: $3.50+$0.30 Sit&Go (Sup Turbo) (54728083), Table 1 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:34:24 ET - 2008/07/12
Seat 2: jaythenuts77 (310)
Seat 4: feihua (700)
Seat 7: beachbguy (700)
Seat 8: KissMyAAss (990)
jaythenuts77 posts the small blind of 60
feihua posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to feihua [Jd Ac]
beachbguy calls 120
KissMyAAss has 15 seconds left to act
feihua: KA off
KissMyAAss is sitting out
KissMyAAss has timed out
KissMyAAss folds
jaythenuts77 folds
KissMyAAss has returned
feihua raises to 700, and is all in
beachbguy folds
Uncalled bet of 580 returned to feihua
feihua mucks
feihua wins the pot (300)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 300 | Rake 0
Seat 2: jaythenuts77 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: feihua (big blind) collected (300), mucked
Seat 7: beachbguy folded before the Flop
Seat 8: KissMyAAss (button) didn't bet (folded)

I felt like I cheated. It was definitely an angle shoot. But I am trying to keep it real to the flaws in the game. The English Only rule especially in online play can be corrected to a point of eradication with a little bit of thought to programming and that makes my opinion that it is an unnecessary rule for online poker.

Collusion?

Collusion, in English, without announcing hands comes down basically to this dialogue between friends:

A: "You got this one?"
B: "Yeah"
A folds.

A simple programming change, along the lines of the all-in HU, would even lock that one out.

drewg22 · Flush Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 139

I don't want to argue back and forth but to me there is a big difference between announcing your cards or a bluff in the language everyone understands rather than two people sharing info in a language they know the other two players don't understand.

Too me that is not a grey situation, it is black and white.

feihua · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:27 am Post subject:

So what did support answer with?

drewg22 · Flush Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 139

Wayniac · Forum Pro Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 617

Anything yet?

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