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David Petina
Full House
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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 Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: How Donktastic was I? |
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Hello all,
As I've posted before, I am still learning Omaha high low and am trying to get better. The villain seriously berated my call of his raise on the flop. So, I wondered what people here (whose money I didn't take on the hand) thought about it.
My thinking was that having seen Villain for a little while, I knew he was capable of a steal and that he tended to play for high hands more than low. Therefore, I thought the A-4 might well make the best low if it hit and that if I hit the flush or the straight, I'd almost certainly have the high barring a paired board for a possible boat. That possibility also slowed down my betting on the river, but for a dime both times, I wanted to see what he had. I know that is weak play, but I didn't trust my read enough and since I stupidly didn't raise pre-flop he literally could have had anything. No need to point that out, I know better and that was a mistake.
Full Tilt Poker Game #7085347857: Table Washburn - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha H/L - 15:30:37 ET - 2008/07/04
Seat 1: ($3.45), is sitting out
Seat 2: ($0), is sitting out
Seat 3: Villain ($3.80)
Seat 4: ($9.25)
Seat 5: ($8.60)
Seat 6: ($10.30)
Seat 7: ($10.80)
Seat 8: ($5.50)
Seat 9: David Petina ($7.40)
Villain posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to David Petina [Th Ah 4d Js] - not great but a suited A, with a 4 seems playable from the button, especially with some high straight draws
Seats 4 to 9 fold
David Petina calls $0.10
Villain checks
*** FLOP *** [5h 8s Qh]
Villain checks
David Petina bets $0.10
Villain raises to $0.50 (pot size bet)
David Petina calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [5h 8s Qh] [5s]
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain bets $0.10
David Petina calls $0.10
*** RIVER *** [5h 8s Qh 5s] [Jh]
Villain bets $0.10
David Petina calls $0.10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain shows [Qs 4s Kc 8h] two pair, Queens and Eights, for high
David Petina shows [Th Ah 4d Js] a flush, Ace high, for high
David Petina wins the pot ($1.45) with a flush, Ace high
I'm most interested in opinions on my call on the flop, but would be happy with any advice. Thanks!.
Dave |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3640
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| You'd deserve a kick in the nuts for folding the NFD on that flop. Even with out it, I still don't mind floating that flop. Hell, I would've re potted it given he has less than 40bbs. |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3640
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| You have to raise that river too. His consecutive min bets are strickly blockers. |
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craigo6x
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2905
Location: Cursing the relievers in the bullpen
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The only hand I'd worry about is a flopped set-I'm with Z-repot on the flop. Nut high draw, gutshot str8 draw and probably only low draw- in position, probably worth playing for stacks |
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craigo6x
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2905
Location: Cursing the relievers in the bullpen
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Question for you David-you have the button-3 broadway cards-2 wheel cards and a suited ace. It folds to you. Why aren't you raising pre? |
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David Petina
Full House
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Craig & Zophar,
Zophar wrote
| Quote: |
| You'd deserve a kick in the nuts for folding the NFD on that flop. |
That was absolutely awesome, I'm still laughing. It really seemed like a reasonable call on the flop but the villain absolutely went off on me. I actually muted him for a while.
And Craig, I know and admitted that I screwed up not raising pre-flop. Aggression is still probably the worst part of my game, especially in Omaha high/low, since I am still really new to it and learning when it pays to be aggressive. I am picking good hands and winning a lot of pots that go to showdown (about 40% splits and 35% scoops), but I think I still have too many hands getting to showdown because I am not aggressive enough early.
Dave |
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speedracer75
Pair
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: How Donktastic was I? |
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| David Petina wrote: |
| Dealt to David Petina [Th Ah 4d Js] - not great but a suited A, with a 4 seems playable from the button, especially with some high straight draws |
not great? You really can't ask for too much more for a starting omaha hi/lo hand. I mean, of course you CAN... but by and large, when you're dealt a starting hand with a suited ace, another wheel card, and two other broadway straight cards, you will ALWAYS play that hand for the flop.
| David Petina wrote: |
Seats 4 to 9 fold
David Petina calls $0.10
Villain checks
*** FLOP *** [5h 8s Qh]
Villain checks
David Petina bets $0.10
Villain raises to $0.50 (pot size bet)
David Petina calls $0.40 |
I personally don't mind the call here (I saw others yelling for a re-raise). You have a few very nice draws with the nut flush and a gutshot straight, but nothing made yet. The call lets you off cheaply if the board happens to pair on the turn and the villain continues to bet aggressively. For him to belittle your call here just shows what a bad player he is...
| David Petina wrote: |
*** TURN *** [5h 8s Qh] [5s]
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain bets $0.10
David Petina calls $0.10 |
Villain shot himself in the foot here with a $0.10 bet. If he pot bets, I think you likely would have folded, right? With the paired board, you may only be drawing to half the pot (i.e. your money back) if the low comes... however, for that price, he's BEGGING for a call.
| David Petina wrote: |
*** RIVER *** [5h 8s Qh 5s] [Jh]
Villain bets $0.10
David Petina calls $0.10
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain shows [Qs 4s Kc 8h] two pair, Queens and Eights, for high
David Petina shows [Th Ah 4d Js] a flush, Ace high, for high
David Petina wins the pot ($1.45) with a flush, Ace high
I'm most interested in opinions on my call on the flop, but would be happy with any advice. Thanks!.
Dave |
I again don't personally mind just the call... even if you just raise him a small amount, what are you going to do if he pot-raises you right back? It would be different if that was a low heart, giving you insurance on the low in case your flush was no good for high. But since it was a high heart, I think the call was the better play. |
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David Petina
Full House
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Speedracer,
When I said not great with the starting hand, I was really thinking in terms of the low end. A-4 is good, but can get you into trouble. I remember reading that Omaha High low is a game that is all about the nuts and there aren't many boards where A-4 is the nut low. I really liked the high end possibilities. And, against the villain I didn't mind a weaker low heads up.
Thinking it over again. I should have raised the river. I agree that the two 10 cent bets are just blockers. I probably should have potted it and let him either fold his 2 pair and assume I hit the flush or else make some more off the hand and really have tilted the cuss.
I still don't know if I'm aggressive enough often enough to re-raise the flop. I know from reading Super System that is how someone ought to play, but I'm not there yet so I tend not to win enough little hands to take the chances on those type of draws. In part that is why I am playing pot limit Omaha high low, it forces me to be more aggressive on the draws and that is helping all of my poker games out.
Thanks again!
Dave |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3640
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| David Petina wrote: |
I still don't know if I'm aggressive enough often enough to re-raise the flop. I know from reading Super System that is how someone ought to play, but I'm not there yet so I tend not to win enough little hands to take the chances on those type of draws. In part that is why I am playing pot limit Omaha high low, it forces me to be more aggressive on the draws and that is helping all of my poker games out.
Thanks again!
Dave |
Run it through twodimes David. Then run it again and give him a set. You'll see that your equity vs this range is pretty good. With him sitting on fewer than 40bbs, I think it's ideal to get it in now with the nut flush draw, nut gut straight draw and a solid low. It also removes any difficult decisions on later streets.
Also, the idea of small pot pickups to play big pots is not really applicable here. It's more about understanding your equity vs. his or any real range.
IMHO |
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LUCIUS VARENUS
High Card
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Raise preflop. |
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