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XCloud
Three of a Kind
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 78
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Don't ever play low limits. |
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Seems like every single one of my bad beads has come from low limit tournies and sit and goes. I could spam out a bunch of examples on this thread, but I'll just use this one. Don't play low limits, unless you want a bad beat.
Full Tilt Poker Game #7196596996: $26 Token Frenzy (54608862), Table 31 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:56:41 ET - 2008/07/12
Seat 1: leakinmoney (1,440)
Seat 2: EdHawaii (1,455)
Seat 3: stoffer1 (3,830)
Seat 4: nokose83 (2,800)
Seat 5: XCloud (1,140)
Seat 6: 99rdbln (1,710)
Seat 7: nzipit (2,375)
Seat 8: allisend (2,660)
Seat 9: tonto27 (1,560)
stoffer1 posts the small blind of 25
nokose83 posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XCloud [Jc Jd]
XCloud raises to 1,140, and is all in
99rdbln has 15 seconds left to act
99rdbln calls 1,140
nzipit folds
allisend folds
tonto27 folds
leakinmoney folds
EdHawaii folds
stoffer1 has 15 seconds left to act
stoffer1 folds
nokose83 folds
XCloud shows [Jc Jd]
99rdbln shows [4h Ah]
*** FLOP *** [3c Td As]
*** TURN *** [3c Td As] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [3c Td As Kd] [8h]
XCloud shows a pair of Jacks
99rdbln shows a pair of Aces
99rdbln wins the pot (2,355) with a pair of Aces
XCloud stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,355 | Rake 0
Board: [3c Td As Kd 8h]
Seat 1: leakinmoney didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: EdHawaii (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: stoffer1 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: nokose83 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: XCloud showed [Jc Jd] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 6: 99rdbln showed [4h Ah] and won (2,355) with a pair of Aces |
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alex j beeson
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 1256
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Your JJ vs A4s will lose 1/3 of the time. You were also UTG, if you get a caller you can bet they have an A. Still early in the tourney blinds 25/50. Since UTG maybe raise to 150 or 200 and then shove if there are no over cards on the flop. With that you can get away from the hand if overs do come. Going all in UTG you took a big chance and you have the fewest chips on the table.
How was your play before this hand? What reads did the others likely have on you? |
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XCloud
Three of a Kind
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I was just moved to this table, so I had no idea what any of the other guys had. My chip stack was crippled a few hands before, from a few preflop raises, when I had AQ on the button against KQ and AK.
I figured I'd just shove all in, since previous indicators from other tables suggested no matter how much I bet out, I'd probably get called. I pushed all in UTG, knowing at least one of em would call with lower pockets or a premium hand. ...But being calling out on an all in with an A4 at a full table? That's just sick. |
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LostOstrich
Forum Ostrich
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 4183
Location: In your bed, with your wife. Smoking your cigarettes, drinking your brandy.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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The UTG shove is really bad with JJ there, at those blinds against an unknown table. You're mostly either racing or dominated if you're called here, and you're driving out a lot of hands that you could extract value from.
Obviously, the guy who called you is an idiot, or he misclicked. But remember that you're delighted when he calls with ace-rag there. Don't ever think you need to avoid players as bad as that. |
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alex j beeson
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 1256
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| XCloud wrote: |
I was just moved to this table, so I had no idea what any of the other guys had. My chip stack was crippled a few hands before, from a few preflop raises, when I had AQ on the button against KQ and AK.
I figured I'd just shove all in, since previous indicators from other tables suggested no matter how much I bet out, I'd probably get called. I pushed all in UTG, knowing at least one of em would call with lower pockets or a premium hand. ...But being calling out on an all in with an A4 at a full table? That's just sick. |
I hear ya on the villians call, but try not to concentrate on that. You have no control what so ever of what the other player does. Look at what you have control of. Where were you going with the hand?
If you shoved with the intention of stealing the blinds, doing so UTG is not so wise.
If when you shoved and you think about what hands would call a shove like that normally you would figure AK+ would be the usuall callers.
The best way to play JJ from UTG IMO is a modest raise 3X the big blind. Follow that up with a C-bet if overs come on the flop, a shove if no overs and a value bet if you set depending on the board. If there are overs be prepared to let the hand go at any strong resistance. Just my thoughts, others may disagree.
Peace |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 6431
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| XCloud, do you think there are no bad beats at higher limits? |
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igetmoney515
Full House
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 243
Location: Gone Fishing.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Rigged. |
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XCloud
Three of a Kind
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| alex j beeson wrote: |
| XCloud wrote: |
I was just moved to this table, so I had no idea what any of the other guys had. My chip stack was crippled a few hands before, from a few preflop raises, when I had AQ on the button against KQ and AK.
I figured I'd just shove all in, since previous indicators from other tables suggested no matter how much I bet out, I'd probably get called. I pushed all in UTG, knowing at least one of em would call with lower pockets or a premium hand. ...But being calling out on an all in with an A4 at a full table? That's just sick. |
I hear ya on the villians call, but try not to concentrate on that. You have no control what so ever of what the other player does. Look at what you have control of. Where were you going with the hand?
If you shoved with the intention of stealing the blinds, doing so UTG is not so wise.
If when you shoved and you think about what hands would call a shove like that normally you would figure AK+ would be the usuall callers.
The best way to play JJ from UTG IMO is a modest raise 3X the big blind. Follow that up with a C-bet if overs come on the flop, a shove if no overs and a value bet if you set depending on the board. If there are overs be prepared to let the hand go at any strong resistance. Just my thoughts, others may disagree.
Peace |
Yeah, I was thinking of raising up 3 or 4x the BB, but considering the play I was experiencing, I figured I might have had about 4 callers if I did that. I was paranoid I might get outdrawn on the flop, so I pushed in to prevent that and try for a race.
Thinking back on it, yeah, I should have just stuck to the standard raises, though. Thanks for the advice.
| HuJwang wrote: |
| XCloud, do you think there are no bad beats at higher limits? |
Well, from my experiences at higher limits, I would think players would play a bit tighter and there would be better/tricky player, which is what I'm generally looking for now. Almost every experience I've had being outed from a low limit table involved hands they shouldn't even have been in in the first place.
For example, I was playing in a $6,000 guarantee re-buy and someone crippled my stack calling 1/6 of his stack with a 7-3, pre-flop, when I had AA, when the bb was about 100. Flop came out 9-7-2 with no flush draws. He was the first to act and pushed all in, and I called half my stack, only to see a 3 come up on the turn.
Yes, there are bad beats in any limit, but what I'm suggesting is that at least players would generally play their hands at least a bit better at higher limits. Playing at lower limits will only set yourself up for horrible bad beats from loose players and bad tilting sprees because of it. |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
| XCloud, do you think there are no bad beats at higher limits? |
My thoughts exactly. |
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dcdoorknob
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 1137
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| XCloud wrote: |
| Yes, there are bad beats in any limit, but what I'm suggesting is that at least players would generally play their hands at least a bit better at higher limits. Playing at lower limits will only set yourself up for horrible bad beats from loose players and bad tilting sprees because of it. |
That, or you keep playing the bad players, remain patient and focused, consciously refusing to give in to tilt, and find yourself a long term winner against the bad players.
Playing better players is fine for a change up and a challenge, but I'll take on the bad players 9 times out of 10, thanks. |
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keegs22
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 579
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| dcdoorknob wrote: |
Playing better players is fine for a change up and a challenge, but I'll take on the bad players 9 times out of 10, thanks. |
+1 |
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dane_ripper
High Card
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
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He knew you had a pair, but thought he might get lucky with the ace, which he did.
What are you doing going all in with jacks? What did you want to win- the blinds? Pretty pointless to me. If you're jacks are so good, surely you want to win something with them, not just have everyone fold so u take the blinds. I dont know why you're complaining that someone called you- you made a stupid bet and got called. Maybe you'll play better next time. Never go all-in unless you got the nuts, or you're completely desperate. Always leave yourself an out. If you don't, its your own damn fault.
Every tournament I play, I watch countless fools going all-in pre-flop on their pair and being taken out. |
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