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Flying_Kiwi

Seat 3 has been playing a really good LAG game and running hot much to my dismay, seat 4 is tighter than the rest of the table and seat 5 is inbetween.

PF: I didn't want to raise because no good low draw and this hand isn't going to play well in a family pot - i think a raise would likely get called all the way around.

Flop: is it ok to jam here like i did? My thinking was I've got a chance I'm ahead but also with lots of people in the pot want to build it up already incase the board pairs for the nut boat. I also know how much idiots like to jam the pot in these situations with low hands only.

Is calling down from the turn OK? By the river I'm pretty sure someone has the straight but there's just too much in the pot for me fold 3 aces.

Full Tilt Poker Game #7023656844: Table Ball (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Omaha H/L - 20:42:46 ET - 2008/06/29
Seat 1: eddie0371 ($9.60)
Seat 2: Flying_Kiwi ($8)
Seat 3: algonac ($18.95)
Seat 4: bigwin44 ($29.20)
Seat 5: thegunner02 ($2.80)
Seat 6: K Slay 23 ($22.30)
Flying_Kiwi posts the small blind of $0.10
algonac posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Flying_Kiwi [8d 8c Ah Ad]
bigwin44 calls $0.25
thegunner02 calls $0.25
K Slay 23 folds
eddie0371 calls $0.25
Flying_Kiwi calls $0.15
algonac checks
*** FLOP *** [5c As 3h]
Flying_Kiwi bets $0.25
algonac raises to $0.50
bigwin44 calls $0.50
thegunner02 calls $0.50
eddie0371 folds
Flying_Kiwi raises to $0.75
algonac raises to $1
bigwin44 calls $0.50
thegunner02 calls $0.50
Flying_Kiwi calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [5c As 3h] [Td]
Flying_Kiwi checks
algonac bets $0.50
bigwin44 calls $0.50
thegunner02 calls $0.50
Flying_Kiwi calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [5c As 3h Td] [Jh]
Flying_Kiwi checks
algonac bets $0.50
bigwin44 calls $0.50
thegunner02 folds
Flying_Kiwi calls $0.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***

cubbies760 · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject:

I hate this hand in O8, actually. I'm usually avoiding pocket pairs, or at least ones without some drawing or decent low possibilities. Limping in PF seems fine for those reasons.

Even that you flopped top set, I don't like this flop at all. I think it's safe to assume that the flop raiser has flopped the wheel, and you're calling down to hit the boat for 1/2 the pot.

You're also playing this pot from the flop for only a possibility at 1/2 the pot at best. The low is virtually guaranteed to be in one of the villian's hands at showdown.

I probably play this hand about the same way that you did, except that I'm just calling the flop raise . I'm wondering if there could be an argument for folding on this flop. I think it may be possible, but I'm not sure.

Zophar?

Flying_Kiwi · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject:

Zophar · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:18 am Post subject:

AA88 is a tough hand in limit multiway. Even though it's likely the best hand at the start, it's extremely difficult to get any real value from unless you hit perfect. It plays much better in PL/NL because of it's implied odds.

OTF, I'd probably play it a bit more passively, hoping to fill up for cheap. Your equity vs. a made wheel is not good. Had the flop been A36, I'd be much more comfortable jamming that flop.

Against good opponents, I think an argument for folding could certainly be made, as the turn will not be seen for 1 bet.

craigo6x · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:24 am Post subject:

[quote="Flying_Kiwi
I know I'm playing for 1/2 the pot here, but I'm keen to stay in it because there's so many people in the pot - lots probably chasing the low - that if I hit my boat I'm looking at a juicy half-pot. But this is something I really need to focus on in LO8 games - remembering to look at odds regarding 1/2 pots.

I agree that in hindsight I think just calling the flop is raise probably the better move. At the time I convinced myself to raise, even thinking someone had the straight, because I knew action would get shut down if the board pairs.[/quote]

I'm not understanding the bolded part Kiwi. A made low was flopped. You are now the one chasing. I'm certainly not leading this pot. At best I'm check calling, but if I don't boat up on the turn, I'm pretty much done.

Flying_Kiwi · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject:

spike420211 · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject:

kiwi-
since u have the AA, someone out there is sitting on A24 or 234 fer sure.
i'm with craigo6x... you have pot odds to wait until the turn to try and
catch ur boat.
if the 3 pairs, quads could come up and bite u too.

Flying_Kiwi · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject:

Zophar · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject:

Quads aren't a consideration here for anyone.

What you have to remember Kiwi, even if no one flopped the wheel and just had a low, they are freerolling for high.

This is a very marginal spot. Marginal spots are extremely difficult to get solid value from when multiway. HU you can play these spots a little more aggressively.

At 1/2 or 2/4, you will see a wheel here 90% of the time. Only the real donks will showdown 33 or 55.

In these spots, i try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible, except when I fill up.

Flying_Kiwi · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject:

craigo6x · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject:

quads?

If the board pairs the last thing I'm worrying about is quads,

Kiwi, I was a little unclear. When I said a made low, I was only referring to the wheel. I'm sure someone is sitting on it, and as Z points out, even a flopped low is drawing to a straight for high as well. You really need to pair this board and not be so aggressive until you do.

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