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fletch_smf
Royal Flush
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 800
Location: Brisneyland
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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: Does your stack size ever get too big in a Ring Game? |
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Had a good session last night at .05/.10 NL Full Ring Game. After a couple of hours, my $10 buy in was up to $50. Having never been in this situation before, I was wondering just how much action I then miss out on having 4/5 times the stack of my nearest opponent. It becomes easier to steal, but am I then losing value because no-one is getting into a pot with me.
Also, because the "fish" would lose an all in to me, then leave the table, it's not like I would be leaving people who were guaranteed to keep losing, iykwim. Would I be better to move and start again with a new image?
Big thanks to everyone who posts here. It has been great/helpful reading. |
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side_tracked
Straight Flush
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| i dont see anyreason to leave unless this repesent a lage portion of your br or you are not comftorble playing deep i think its fun but you sould start to play diff if some one else is getting deep with you say 150 to 200 bb the main thing is if a table is proftible no need to leave imo. if its not run. |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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One thing to keep in mind is how well you play deep stacked. If you get up to $20 and some of your opponents have $20, leaving you 200bb deep, I would definately consider leaving the table if you have little experience playing that deep or if you are not very confident in your game. But if you are experienced at playing deep and you think you have a pretty decent edge over the other people who are matching your stack, then I would be very happy to play against them deep. When I feel I am better than someone, I would much prefer to play as deep as possible to maximize my profits.
I would not worry too much about the things you are worrying about though. If you have $50 and everyone else has $10, then you are only playing for $10 at a time anyway. The game does not change from when you are sitting with $10 yourself.
| Quote: |
| It becomes easier to steal |
I don't really get where you are coming from on this. Are you saying that it is easier to steal because you have a larger stack? If this is what you mean, then you are wrong. When you have $50 and your opponent has $10, you can only play for $10 yourself, so your large chip stack does not give you any real advantage. Its not like a tournament where someone will fold instead of shove their small stack because you are a large stack and can afford to gamble, thus minimizing their fold equity.
If you mean that you get less action because people fold because they think you are an elite player due to your large stack size, I would still have to disagree. I doubt that many 10NL players are thinking on that level. In fact most players just play their cards and don't pay attention to the situation at 10NL (at least in my experience). |
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fletch_smf
Royal Flush
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 800
Location: Brisneyland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: |
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I see what you mean about playing deep. If someone else doubles their buy in I'm basically playing them at .10/.25 now, yeah?
Thanks for your comments. |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| fletch_smf wrote: |
I see what you mean about playing deep. If someone else doubles their buy in I'm basically playing them at .10/.25 now, yeah?
Thanks for your comments. |
No not really. You are still playing .05/.10. You are just playing it 200 big blinds deep. This will play completely different from .10/.25 with 100bb. Even though the $ amounts are the same, it plays like a very different game. You should always be thinking in terms of big blinds rather than actual $ amounts. |
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GoldenDomer9
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1963
Location: CAP tbls
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW, I completely agree with the "easier to steal" comment, although I'd word it more like "get more respect".
Fish are certainly going to be fish, which is why they're playing these low levels; however, your continuation bets, raises, etc. get much more respect if you've proven capable of building such a big stack. While these guys don't necessarily pay close attention all the time, if you've been busting people with sets and straights in your big pots, even the morons know enough to give you some credit. Are they going to all of the sudden start folding top pair to you? Probably not. But will they wait for someone else to check-raise 7 high on a KQ2 board? In my experience, yes, they will.
This dynamic isn't necessarily a good or a bad thing, just something to be aware of. I typically open up my pre flop raising range and start hammering away at continuation bets, particularly in HU pots. After a while the table will begin to doubt me, at which point I can begin taking the mid pair donkeys to value town again with strong hands. |
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cloud_strife007
Straight
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 115
Location: Des Moines, IA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I try to stick to Chris Ferguson's bankroll tips, and he says leave when your stack at the table makes up 10% of your bankroll. if you have more then $500 in your bankroll, stay in the game your winning at, if not, leave and rebuy at another table for the max. |
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DrAndrian
Straight Flush
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I would stay at the same table just b/c a big stack looks really cool =P. |
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missjugsalot
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1318
Location: Land of the free, because of the brave
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| cloud_strife007 wrote: |
| I try to stick to Chris Ferguson's bankroll tips, and he says leave when your stack at the table makes up 10% of your bankroll. if you have more then $500 in your bankroll, stay in the game your winning at, if not, leave and rebuy at another table for the max. |
I agree with this, I think if 5x your buy in, get up and bank some profit. I would suspect that at this level your bankroll isn't close to $500, so if that fifty bucks is even 25% of your roll, you no doubt have to get up. I used to play way outside my bankroll and ultimately go on a bad beat run that would bust me. Since I implemented proper bankroll management, I have been able to weather multiple "doom switch" runs and yet still have half my bankroll intact.
If everyone used proper bankroll management we could eliminate a lot of "rigged" posts. |
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GoldenDomer9
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1963
Location: CAP tbls
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| I guess I don't necessarily agree with Ferguson in this case, since it is quite possible that your own stack is still effectively 100 BBs, depending on the other stacks @ the table. |
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telebob
Full House
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Lake Tahoe
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenDomer9 wrote: |
| I guess I don't necessarily agree with Ferguson in this case, since it is quite possible that your own stack is still effectively 100 BBs, depending on the other stacks @ the table. |
Of course, if you buy in for 5% of your bankroll, that's the most you can lose. And if you're 4 buy-ins up while the rest of the table is 1 buy-in deep, you can't lose the whole thing in one hand. But I think the point of the 10% max rule is to have a defined point to bank your profit. It's quite a bit more frustrating to get 2 buy-ins up and then bust out than it is to just have a bad run and end up down 1 buy-in, even though the result is the same to your bankroll. I've heard other people use a system where once they more than double up, they stand up when they've lost a certain amount from the max, say half a buy-in or something. I like Ferguson's rule better because it's simpler and you end up leaving on a high note. |
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live4freerolls
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 2499
Location: Grindin
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| telebob wrote: |
| GoldenDomer9 wrote: |
| I guess I don't necessarily agree with Ferguson in this case, since it is quite possible that your own stack is still effectively 100 BBs, depending on the other stacks @ the table. |
Of course, if you buy in for 5% of your bankroll, that's the most you can lose. And if you're 4 buy-ins up while the rest of the table is 1 buy-in deep, you can't lose the whole thing in one hand. But I think the point of the 10% max rule is to have a defined point to bank your profit. It's quite a bit more frustrating to get 2 buy-ins up and then bust out than it is to just have a bad run and end up down 1 buy-in, even though the result is the same to your bankroll. I've heard other people use a system where once they more than double up, they stand up when they've lost a certain amount from the max, say half a buy-in or something. I like Ferguson's rule better because it's simpler and you end up leaving on a high note. |
No the purpose of it is that if you're using a 20 buyin rule and you have an effective stack of 2 buyins it is that same as playing with a 10 buyin bankroll that and goes against good bankroll management. |
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BladeBoyle
Pair
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Does your stack size ever get too big in a Ring Game? |
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leave at 25$ they will start to get sneaky and tighten up and check raise you if yer not careful
| fletch_smf wrote: |
Had a good session last night at .05/.10 NL Full Ring Game. After a couple of hours, my $10 buy in was up to $50. Having never been in this situation before, I was wondering just how much action I then miss out on having 4/5 times the stack of my nearest opponent. It becomes easier to steal, but am I then losing value because no-one is getting into a pot with me.
Also, because the "fish" would lose an all in to me, then leave the table, it's not like I would be leaving people who were guaranteed to keep losing, iykwim. Would I be better to move and start again with a new image?
Big thanks to everyone who posts here. It has been great/helpful reading. |
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bingy1990
Royal Flush
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 707
Location: PokerStars MTT's.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| You've got to consider other stack sizes imo. If I was in this situation and there were other big stacks, say 5 guys with $15-$20, I would deffo stay put. If however I had this stack with a table full of short-stacks I would leave and rebuy somewhere else. This would be because I am sitting with chips that I can hardly build, and only really lose. With the bigger stacks you are still risking your chips, but with a much more realistic chance of building them. |
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