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JBlooms
Pair
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: I hate losing to bad plays. (subject edited in the name of sportsmanship - lol) |
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Yes, I want to play fish who are down $1400 and are obviously clueless.
Yes, I want them to call me down chasing a gutshot.
No, I do not want them to hit their three outer.
But it happens sometimes.
Full Tilt Poker Game #6864001779: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (Turbo) (52169941), Table 1 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:50:16 ET - 2008/06/17
Seat 1: CasaDeChampions (2,470)
Seat 2: xSUNRAYx (1,220)
Seat 3: JBlooms (1,375)
Seat 5: wonderroli (1,395)
Seat 6: lugume (1,420)
Seat 7: SSG E CAV (2,770)
Seat 8: Spongi212 (1,365)
Seat 9: thepicnicguy (1,485)
JBlooms posts the small blind of 25
wonderroli posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to JBlooms [Jd 6s]
lugume calls 50
SSG E CAV calls 50
Spongi212 folds
thepicnicguy calls 50
CasaDeChampions calls 50
xSUNRAYx folds
JBlooms calls 25
wonderroli checks
*** FLOP *** [8d Js 4c]
JBlooms checks
wonderroli checks
lugume checks
SSG E CAV checks
thepicnicguy checks
CasaDeChampions has 15 seconds left to act
CasaDeChampions bets 100
JBlooms raises to 300
wonderroli folds
lugume folds
SSG E CAV calls 300
thepicnicguy folds
CasaDeChampions folds
*** TURN *** [8d Js 4c] [6c]
JBlooms bets 1,025, and is all in
SSG E CAV calls 1,025
JBlooms shows [Jd 6s]
SSG E CAV shows [Ad 7d]
*** RIVER *** [8d Js 4c 6c] [5h]
JBlooms shows two pair, Jacks and Sixes
SSG E CAV shows a straight, Eight high
SSG E CAV wins the pot (3,050) with a straight, Eight high
JBlooms stands up
The blinds are now 30/60
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,050 | Rake 0
Board: [8d Js 4c 6c 5h]
Seat 1: CasaDeChampions folded on the Flop
Seat 2: xSUNRAYx (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: JBlooms (small blind) showed [Jd 6s] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Sixes
Seat 5: wonderroli (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: lugume folded on the Flop
Seat 7: SSG E CAV showed [Ad 7d] and won (3,050) with a straight, Eight high
Seat 8: Spongi212 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: thepicnicguy folded on the Flop
Last edited by JBlooms on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MarkGreb
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1208
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Uh, fold J6 off suit pre-flop.
Problem solved. |
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surfer bum1
Full House
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 169
Location: America
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| lol |
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JBlooms
Pair
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| MarkGreb wrote: |
Uh, fold J6 off suit pre-flop.
Problem solved. |
Guess I expected that response. Another 25 chips into a 250 pot seems like a good call to me. (See related topic: Pot Odds.) Then I check it around, last guy tries to steal. Raise him and he goes away, and I get all my chips in against a maniac chasing a three outer. Actually, I played it perfectly. I was playing the player, not the cards. |
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Peepers_au
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| JBlooms wrote: |
| Guess I expected that response. Another 25 chips into a 250 pot seems like a good call to me. (See related topic: Pot Odds.) |
That argument only works if you actually had a semi-decent hand pre-flop. J6o doesn't really fit into that category. (See related topic: bleeding chips.) |
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Cattivo
Straight
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 120
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| You should only stick to that hand with so many people seeing the flop if you hit it twice on the flop (J-J-x, 6-6-x, J-6-x). You got lucky on the turn which made you think you did a good thing, but a weak hand like that can be beaten easily - even if the A7 guy just got lucky on the river this time. |
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JBlooms
Pair
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Peepers_au wrote: |
| JBlooms wrote: |
| Guess I expected that response. Another 25 chips into a 250 pot seems like a good call to me. (See related topic: Pot Odds.) |
That argument only works if you actually had a semi-decent hand pre-flop. J6o doesn't really fit into that category. (See related topic: bleeding chips.) |
I see your point but disagree. I rarely play garbage early. After all, a 9 person ($2) SNG usually ends up being 6 person SNG paying 3 due to the horrible play. However, I also realize that you have to win chips with marginal cards once in a while if you want to be a winning player. Then again, perhaps all of the top players wait for premiums on the button before they play. |
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JBlooms
Pair
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Cattivo wrote: |
| You should only stick to that hand with so many people seeing the flop if you hit it twice on the flop (J-J-x, 6-6-x, J-6-x). You got lucky on the turn which made you think you did a good thing, but a weak hand like that can be beaten easily - even if the A7 guy just got lucky on the river this time. |
Thanks for the good posts, guys. I appreciate it! |
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surfer bum1
Full House
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 169
Location: America
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Wait a second. Playing the player? You weren't playing the player at all, you were playing the odds, which you calculated incorrectly. When you play the odds, the rule is you stay in the hand if your odds on winning are greater then you pot odds. In this case, they were not. |
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JBlooms
Pair
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| surfer bum1 wrote: |
| Wait a second. Playing the player? You weren't playing the player at all, you were playing the odds, which you calculated incorrectly. When you play the odds, the rule is you stay in the hand if your odds on winning are greater then you pot odds. In this case, they were not. |
LOL. I thought this was done. I was playing the odds AND the player. I figured 25 chips (2% of my stack) into a 250 pot was reasonable, EVEN with J6os. I flopped the best hand. I pushed out the stealer with a raise. I got the chaser (who pushed all in first hand and was obviously a fish) to risk his stack on a gutshot draw. I'd say I played it pretty well.
You can argue all you want. I played it correctly and took a three out bad beat. I appreciate your opinion but we'll just have to agree to disagree. |
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Nositi
Four of a Kind
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 297
Location: Vancouver, Canada eh
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Why do you keep calling it a 3 outer? Am I missing where the other 5 went to? |
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JBlooms
Pair
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Nositi wrote: |
| Why do you keep calling it a 3 outer? Am I missing where the other 5 went to? |
My bad. Four outer. Still the situation does not change. |
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surfer bum1
Full House
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 169
Location: America
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I stay away from bad hands no matter what the odds are. Because what happens is you go in with 72 since it's cheap, then the flop holds a 2. The guy who goes all in you think you have a read on, so you call... and then of course lose. I don't like to see flops with bad hands because I am always tempted to catch someone bluffin, which is a good thing, but you don't want to try to catch a bluff with a pair of two's. Difference in opinions, yes. |
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Peepers_au
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JBlooms wrote: |
| I figured 25 chips (2% of my stack) into a 250 pot was reasonable, EVEN with J6os. I flopped the best hand. I pushed out the stealer with a raise. I got the chaser (who pushed all in first hand and was obviously a fish) to risk his stack on a gutshot draw. I'd say I played it pretty well. |
Exactly what range were you putting your opponents on that you feel you had the correct odds and then knew you had the best hand on the flop?
You had top pair, crap kicker. There were any number of solid hands that any of the other players could have been on that had you crushed when you decided to raise the flop. Realistically, you donked the flop and got lucky on the turn only to have luck go back the other way on the river.
I agree with Cattivo's comments about having to nail the flop VERY hard in order to make this hand even remotely playable, which simply isn't going to happen often enough to justify the pre-flop call - even for 2% of your stack. |
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surfer bum1
Full House
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 169
Location: America
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Correct. Seems like the decision after the flop is your problem. Not even pre-flop, but top pair isn't going to cut it for an all in. |
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