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nilgiri

Villain is 30/5/1.2 over 171 hands. As his AF stat indicates, he doesn't seem to show aggression much unless he actually has something.

Opinions about the flop smooth call? What now?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: $20
BTN: $87.50
SB: $108.05
Hero (BB): $150.80
UTG: $151.90

Pre-Flop: 8

8

dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, SB raises to $4, Hero calls $3, UTG calls $3

Flop: ($12) J

9

8

(3 Players)
SB bets $9, Hero calls $9, UTG calls $9

Turn: ($39) 5

(3 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $17, UTG raises to $59, SB folds, Hero ???

crossroader · Two Pair Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Posts: 51

please raise that flop, too draw heavy to just call. also the turn bet is bad, if u still have the best hand & hes drawing with something like A10 w/ace of hearts, then ur betting way to small & giving him great odds, on the other hand if ur beat, which it looks like u are, then just check, given the fact that 2 others were in there to see the turn, good chance 1 of them was drawing to the flush so check the turn, then decide what to do based on villians bet size.

renegades8 · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject:

Raise 5x preflop after the limper, especially since you're both like 150bb deep. On the flop definitely raise 3-handed on that scary board when you're that deep. Not exactly sure how much you should make it, maybe $30-35? Your turn bet looks incredibly weak, you're almost telling him that you hate that card. Folding this turn seems fine since you're beat here most of the time, but I can maybe see some merit in calling. Since you have position here and you're deep enough you can maybe just call and re-evaluate the river. You can just let it go if he fires the river again and just check behind if he checks, and you can also possibly stack him if you fill up (not sure if you're deep enough though).

nilgiri · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject:

HuJwang · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject:

i'm not really too sure what you're thinking with the flop call. it seems really horrible to me.

as played, i think it should be a fold. you have to call $42 to win around $190 assuming that he stacks off EVERY time you fill up, and that he never has a higher set. neither of these conditions is guaranteed. the other problem is that a villain like this will often make a small value bet on the river, say 1/3 of the pot, and it will be very tough to get away from that when you don't fill, so there may even be some reverse implied odds here.

renegades8 · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject:

nilgiri · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject:

Bleh, thanks. It's late and my brain isn't getting math correct. Wink

I see the points about raising OTF. For some reason I got scared and had some sense that someone might have a straight...

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Sweden

I def. agree with everyone saying raise the flop and get it in if you can. Calling on a board like this will tend to be pretty terrible because you'll get in so many bad spots later on where you're either putting in too much money with the worst hand or too little with the best hand. On the turn your weak bet makes things really weird but I think it's probably still a fold. As for having FE, your chances of getting it in vs. worse are probably higher than your chances of folding out better. I doubt if your turn bet looks like a flush to anyone as much as it just looks weak btw.

nilgiri · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:18 am Post subject:

Thanks guys. I had a feeling I totally misplayed this. I called the turn raise and the case 8 showed up for quads. I shoved the river and he called with a straight.

I hadn't really considered that calling the flop was that bad, but I can see how bad it was now!

Out of curiosity, what would I do OTF to a 3-bet or shove, and what would I do OTT if he smooth calls my raise and then shoves?

Honest_Rob · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:29 am Post subject:

Get it in on the flop all day long. This flop is so drawy that you need to protect your hand and avoid putting yourself in tricky spots later on and because the flop is so drawy, villains will often be pushing draws. And really when you flop a set it's almost always correct to just get as much money in as you can. Also let's say that you raise the flop to $30 and then he shoves. You're getting about 1.6 to 1 to call and you're about 1.8 to 1 to make a boat by the river. This is not quite correct if he has a straight but he could have so many draws/stupid two pairs as well that you are already ahead of. Also other times he'll just fold to your raise and you'll win the pot right there.

PokerJessO · Straight Flush Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 412

Yeah, flat-calling this flop in a 3-way pot is a bad move. Your turn bet is also bad - not because it appears weak, but because it's very likely that at least 1 of your opponents was on a draw, and the most likely draw just hit. Your hand was big on the flop, but seriously shrank on the turn. Check/call here to see the river as cheaply as possible.

reitking1 · High Card Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 8

I'd call the turn primarily because if I was in your opponent's position with a weaker made hand, I would be raising just like he did.

renegades8 · Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject:

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Sweden

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