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rockycatt
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3139
Location: WE WANT RAKE BACK
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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HE FLOPED A TTT77 BOAT AND [was hopeing you would call I M O
looking at your stack] and you got only 2 outs if there not folded |
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rockycatt
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3139
Location: WE WANT RAKE BACK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| cjavdani wrote: |
| After playing longer, the villains stats end up being 28/7/.5 with a WTSD of 28. So in retrospect this is aggression from a loose passive player. |
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in responce to this  Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:54 am Post subject:
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cjavdani wrote:
After playing longer, the villains stats end up being 28/7/.5 with a WTSD of 28. So in retrospect this is aggression from a loose passive player.
Did you call or fold? Curious what the villian had
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did this romance come to a climax 
ya give it up like a prom dress  pronto
Last edited by rockycatt on Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cjavdani
Royal Flush
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 641
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| rockycatt wrote: |
did this romance come to a climax
ya give it up like a prom dress pronto |
Rocky, this is a bigger WTF than the OP |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2120
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
| HuJwang's last post |
I'm basically going off of my experience of low stakes players overbet shoving flops. Maybe mine is different from other people's experiences, but I see this call being profitable. In my experience, I see people never shoving 77 or TT here, sometimes shoving TX, and shoving pocket pairs that don't connect with the board (like JJ, QQ, KK, and sometimes smaller ones that they don't know how to play like 88/99). Most of what I see when they shove is a result of the villian not knowing how to play a hand postflop and the majority of their problems come from playing mid pp postflop. I used to see a lot of people at 25nl playing pretty stupidly by shoving stuff like that here. But maybe my experience is wrong and I just happened to run into a lot more idiots than normal. That is totally possible.
| cjavdani wrote: |
| After playing longer, the villains stats end up being 28/7/.5 with a WTSD of 28. So in retrospect this is aggression from a loose passive player. |
Knowing this, I'd be much less apt to call, but probably still call. I could still see a loose passive doing this with JJ or QQ. |
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bdbranch
Banned
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 503
Location: At home wdyt. Btw. I'm not opinionated all the time, umm can you be opinionated when you're asleep
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Drtre1987, whether you come across more idiots then normal depends on what time you are playing. My comment about it not being a snapcall is generally similar to HuJwang's. The way I think about this is as follows. He could be unhappy with missing the flop, he could be hoping that his pp is good or be could have that T and are hoping to get all of the chips in. Coming back, I think that it's possibly even more marginal for hero to call than I originally thought, but I'd still call (with fingers crossed). |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3679
Location: griiiiinding
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with drtre on this. From my experience playing 25NL (which of course could be different since I play mostly on PokerStars), this is a hand that they don't really know how to play (JJ+, maybe some combo draw with overs) much more often than it is a monster. They're much more likely imo to shove here with hands they don't know how to play and get small value bets out of hands that hit the flop hard than they are to shove with hands that hit the flop hard.
Last edited by renegades8 on Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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StevieWard
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1552
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| cjavdani wrote: |
| rockycatt wrote: |
did this romance come to a climax
ya give it up like a prom dress pronto |
Rocky, this is a bigger WTF than the OP |
+1. |
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StevieWard
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1552
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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The majority of the time surely when someone does something stupid like this it means they are scared or dont really know what to do. If you had a monster why would you want to shove here?? (I maybe dont get it because I would struggle to do it even if someone paid me as it makes me cringe).
I definitly call and just laugh if he has me completely crushed and move onto the next hand. |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2120
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
3) he has a hand he thinks is ahead, but he is scared about being
outdrawn.
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I forgot to mention that this is the reason why some villians will shove mid pp here. They see a flop that misses overcards and just shove because they are afraid of an A, K, Q, or a flush card rolling off on the turn or river. And while someone may do this with TX being afraid of a flush card hitting, the same opponent might also do the same with JJ. |
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Honest_Rob
Forum Pro
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 6271
Location: counting my blessings
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| StevieWard wrote: |
| If you had a monster why would you want to shove here?? (I maybe dont get it because I would struggle to do it even if someone paid me as it makes me cringe). |
This is why they would do it. Because it confuses you and makes you say WTF? Overbetting the pot as a deceptive move really isn't anything new.
Another thing I want to point out is that I've noticed a lot of time people tend to think they're ahead when their opponent makes a stupid play(I think we all agree this shove was stupid no matter what he has) without stopping to think of their opponent's logic. It's stupid logic but many times even though your opponent plays stupid you still need to fold and you don't deserve to win the hand just because they play stupid. I'm not talking about this thread or any post in it in particular, I've just been noticing this tendency a little bit and not just in this forum. I'm also not saying we should fold here either just that calling on principle and then bemoaning your opponent's horrible play while he scoops the pot is -EV. |
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StevieWard
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 1552
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Honest_Rob wrote: |
| StevieWard wrote: |
| If you had a monster why would you want to shove here?? (I maybe dont get it because I would struggle to do it even if someone paid me as it makes me cringe). |
This is why they would do it. Because it confuses you and makes you say WTF? Overbetting the pot as a deceptive move really isn't anything new.
Another thing I want to point out is that I've noticed a lot of time people tend to think they're ahead when their opponent makes a stupid play(I think we all agree this shove was stupid no matter what he has) without stopping to think of their opponent's logic. It's stupid logic but many times even though your opponent plays stupid you still need to fold and you don't deserve to win the hand just because they play stupid. I'm not talking about this thread or any post in it in particular, I've just been noticing this tendency a little bit and not just in this forum. I'm also not saying we should fold here either just that calling on principle and then bemoaning your opponent's horrible play while he scoops the pot is -EV. |
I get what you mean...sometimes an opponents logic will be to donk raise/shove in this scenario with the absolute nuts because you will think "why would he do that if he has it" so that you then call - which I still think works way less times than it will successfully and I have admittedly been burned by it before.
I still call here though.
This hand reminds me of a friend of mine who is a but nuts. He often donk overbets/donk shoves when he has TPTK/top 2 on a flush board/gutshot on an A high board etc......for a long time I folded every time non stop as I never had a hand to call him with and had never seen his cards once, but after a while I got fed up and started calling him with 2nd pair and stuff - I know beat him a lot more than he beats me now that i can see what he does. He occasionalyl does this with the absolute nuts as well (Bet $60 into a $10 pot).  |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 6431
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Honest_Rob wrote: |
Another thing I want to point out is that I've noticed a lot of time people tend to think they're ahead when their opponent makes a stupid play(I think we all agree this shove was stupid no matter what he has) without stopping to think of their opponent's logic. It's stupid logic but many times even though your opponent plays stupid you still need to fold and you don't deserve to win the hand just because they play stupid. I'm not talking about this thread or any post in it in particular, I've just been noticing this tendency a little bit and not just in this forum. I'm also not saying we should fold here either just that calling on principle and then bemoaning your opponent's horrible play while he scoops the pot is -EV. |
Great post and I can't agree more with the last sentence. |
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