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Honest_Rob
Forum Pro
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 6277
Location: counting my blessings
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: 25NL AQs UTG (line check) |
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Villain is 27/13/2.3(30)
Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
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UTG+1: $17.90
UTG+2: $11.15
MP1: $26.05
MP2: $25.55
CO: $29.30
BTN: $25.75
SB: $15.65
BB: $25
Hero (UTG): $25.35
Pre-Flop: A Q dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $0.85, 6 folds, SB raises to $1.45, BB folds, Hero calls $0.60
Flop: ($3.15) K Q 6 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($3.15) 4 (2 Players)
SB bets $3.15, Hero calls $3.15
River: ($9.45) 5 (2 Players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3 |
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cjavdani
Royal Flush
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 641
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd bet about $2 on the flop. A check raise or the SB leading out on the turn will let you know that 2nd pair probably isn't good. |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 6431
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I like your line. I don't like betting the flop. You could make a case for making a hero fold on the turn... but bleh. I'd have to have a better read than the stats from a 30 hand sample before folding to just one bet. On the river I call... if I had to guess his hand, I'd say it really looks like he has AQ for the chop. |
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 2089
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd probably take that line as well. |
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Blackray
Full House
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 169
Location: Bergen, Norway
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| cjavdani wrote: |
| I'd bet about $2 on the flop. A check raise or the SB leading out on the turn will let you know that 2nd pair probably isn't good. |
I agree with betting the flop. I think it would give us some good information and make the hand easier to play.
I'd raise the flop because:
1. If he 3bets I'd respect it and fold without a good read on villain.
2. If he calls I'd probably call OTT (or bet if he checks again which is more likely imo, and possibly pick up the pot right there) and get a free showdown OTR. I'm folding to a 3bet OTT or to any ok sized river bets.
Situation #2 doesn't lose us much more money than your line did, and we'd be taking a more aggressive line which adds fold equity. |
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 2089
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Blackray wrote: |
| and we'd be taking a more aggressive line which adds fold equity. |
FE isn't always a good thing. For example, in this case I doubt we are folding out any better hands. AK, AA, KK, QQ, 66, KQ... these hands are never folding here. So what do we have FE against? PPs that we beat and are unlikely to draw out on us. AJ and AT(?) that are both gutshots and unlikely to draw out on us.
So really, if we fold him out, there is barely any benefit. Much better IMHO to give him a chance to bluff or think he is v-betting with hands like 99. It has the added benefit of keeping the pot small when he does have something that beats us. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I forgot to reply to this when I first read it, but I also like your line. What HuJwang said about seeing a case for a hero fold on the turn but wanting a more substantial reason for it before actually making it is pretty much exactly how I felt when I saw the hand. As it is I think he'll show up with a set or a weirdly played AA/AK fairly often, but not really often enough to fold. It just feels like he'll be getting stupid with some kind of air or a worse pair too often. On the river I think he'll be making a blocking bet with AQ or something retarded that we beat often enough to make the call a no brainer. |
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Blackray
Full House
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 169
Location: Bergen, Norway
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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nilgiri: AK, AA, KK, QQ, 66, KQ is check/raising this flop, which is fine... I'll fold as in #1. Anything else we'll get FE and the hand will be easier to play from there. I really don't like being in the dark calling down like OP did without knowing where I am.
Riddim: A wierdly played AA/AK or set will probably be detected by a raise on the flop and we can get out of the hand. I don't see why we want to CS it down through the river hoping to catch a bluff/chop without any read on villain. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| When people check this flop with a big hand after 3-betting PF, it's generally not to raise if someone bets. A flop bet is pretty terrible vs. most people because it doesn't serve much of a purpose other than ensuring that we don't get bluffed, which on its own usually isn't a good reason for betting. Nobody is saying that we have to call down all the way no matter what villain bets on the river. He just happened to bet really small this time, giving us great odds. Why are you talking about FE like it's a good thing when he'll only fold hands we beat btw? |
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