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nilgiri · Last edited by nilgiri on Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total

Here's an example hand, and maybe it will help me in general...

EDIT: Reads are good. Villain is 21/18/1.5(248). I'm running like 24/19/9 or so (very aggressive at this table). He's seen me play about 50 hands.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $126.35
CO: $110.30
BTN: $30.80
Hero (SB): $133.30
BB: $156.95
UTG: $101.50

Pre-Flop: A

K

dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG raises to $4, 3 folds, Hero raises to $13, BB folds, UTG calls $9

Flop: ($27) 4

7

5

(2 Players)
Hero ???

StevieWard · Message Board Junkie Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 1552

Bet around $23 and hope to take it down.

Things to think about though:

Depending on your read, you might have to distinguish if that flop could be part of their range, and similarly if they believe it is part of yours, as the only 2 things you could be representing here would be a flush draw or an over pair.

If they call, again read dependant they could be on a draw also, so a 2nd barrel may be required.

As nitty as this sounds, I have also found myself checking the flop after a 3 bet - if you really dont think its a good flop, theres no point putting more money in when they will raise/call you easily or not believe you.

HuJwang · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject:

$23 is a bit excessive imo. i bet more like $17, since it's what i'd normally bet if i had AA there. villain's stats tells me he is likely to be good enough to pick up on variations in c-bet sizing.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Sweden

lovebeefstew · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject:

Yeh im inclined to agree with Riddim. Without any reads on this guy id find it hard to put more money into that pot with that flop. It would smell of a bluff if he has any sort of hand.

StevieWard · Message Board Junkie Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 1552

nilgiri · Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:53 am Post subject:

Ok, so I made a c-bet. Slightly smaller than what you recommended, Hu. I have a range of bet sizes that I'd bet here, and $15 is within the range. (Keep in mine there is a $1.35 rake, making the pot $25.65. $15 is pretty much a 3/5 pot bet, not closer to a 1/2 pot bet like it seems with $27.) I have no idea if the villain would know that, because I don't know how many 3-bet pots I've c-bet with him around. Most 3-bets I make are not called.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $126.35
CO: $110.30
BTN: $30.80
Hero (SB): $133.30
BB: $156.95
UTG: $101.50

Pre-Flop: A

K

dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG raises to $4, 3 folds, Hero raises to $13, BB folds, UTG calls $9

Flop: ($27) 4

7

5

(2 Players)
Hero bets $15, UTG calls $15

Turn: ($57) 9

(2 Players)
Hero ???

HuJwang · Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:00 am Post subject:

now you give up.

StevieWard · Message Board Junkie Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 1552

nilgiri · Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:36 am Post subject:

Ok. I check/folded OTT.

I also just noticed those other replies, sorry guys. I don't remember any actual relevant reads on this guy. I do like the c/f suggestion for the flop, and was wondering whether that was a reasonable line. I just wonder how that affects the times I have something I do want action with.

reitking1 · High Card Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 8

I don't like the c/f line on this type of flop typically, but I think it's good to vary your play. This is a hand where you quite possibly are beat and I agree that he's not folding anything that does have you beat since you're seen as aggressive. So I think this is a good time to skip the c-bet.

Definitely give up the turn.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Sweden

Meh, people will still not fold a pair to a c-bet most of the time here so shutting down when we miss isn't a big deal when it comes to getting action when we do have something. Some people will adjust and start calling your 3-bets more after seeing you give up like that tough, in which case you can start to c-bet profitably.

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