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skeeter1114 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1959

I may not claim to know much about this game, but what combination can he have to justify this play:

Full Tilt Poker Game #6731509476: MBJ Horse Season 3 (50457306), Table 2 - 50/100 Ante 10 - Limit Razz - 14:30:18 ET - 2008/06/07
Seat 1: skeeter1114 (3,840)
Seat 2: QuasiPro (335)
Seat 3: kyblue007 (1,520)
Seat 4: bryan24 (2,825)
Seat 5: critterbugg (1,635), is sitting out
Seat 6: g_420man (1,765)
Seat 7: jl131 (2,665)
Seat 8: kazor (1,415)
skeeter1114 antes 10
QuasiPro antes 10
kyblue007 antes 10
bryan24 antes 10
critterbugg antes 10
g_420man antes 10
jl131 antes 10
kazor antes 10
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to skeeter1114 [7c 8c] [6h]
Dealt to QuasiPro [3d]
Dealt to kyblue007 [5h]
Dealt to bryan24 [Jh]
Dealt to critterbugg [Jd]
Dealt to g_420man [Tc]
Dealt to jl131 [9c]
Dealt to kazor [Qs]
kazor is high with [Qs]
kazor brings in for 15
skeeter1114 calls 15
QuasiPro folds
kyblue007 folds
bryan24 calls 15
critterbugg folds
g_420man folds
jl131 folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to skeeter1114 [7c 8c 6h] [7h]
Dealt to bryan24 [Jh] [4h]
Dealt to kazor [Qs] [5s]
skeeter1114 bets 50
bryan24 calls 50
kazor folds
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to skeeter1114 [7c 8c 6h 7h] [Qh]
Dealt to bryan24 [Jh 4h] [4d]
skeeter1114 bets 100
bryan24 calls 100
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to skeeter1114 [7c 8c 6h 7h Qh] [4c]
Dealt to bryan24 [Jh 4h 4d] [2s]
skeeter1114 bets 100
bryan24 calls 100
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to skeeter1114 [7c 8c 6h 7h Qh 4c] [Kd]
skeeter1114 bets 100
bryan24 calls 100
*** SHOW DOWN ***
skeeter1114 shows [Kd 8c 6h 7h Qh 4c 7c] Q,8,7,6,4
bryan24 shows [7d 5c Jh 4h 4d 2s 4s] J,7,5,4,2
bryan24 wins the pot (825) with J,7,5,4,2
The game is now 60/120 Limit Stud Hi with an ante of 10
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 825 | Rake 0
Seat 1: skeeter1114 showed [Kd 8c 6h 7h Qh 4c 7c] and lost with Q,8,7,6,4
Seat 2: QuasiPro folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: kyblue007 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: bryan24 showed [7d 5c Jh 4h 4d 2s 4s] and won (825) with J,7,5,4,2
Seat 5: critterbugg folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: g_420man folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: jl131 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: kazor folded on 4th St.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject:

Check/fold 6th. He very likely has a made J low with a pretty good low draw whereas you have a made Q low with a low draw that is almost always worse than his. I know your board looks better than his and you think you can rep a made 7 but he's given no indication that he's gonna fold and that 2 looks like a good card for him. You'd want to bet for value here rather than to push him off his hand.

KATIE1988 · Warned Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 57

It appears to me that you have been beaten by one of sgspecials apprentices.
Dont beat yourself up about it but in future u have to learn to avoid these type of players.
A tell tell sign off an sg apprentice would be one that calls a raise with a pictue or re raises with a pair i hope that helps.

skeeter1114 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1959

I understand the check/call on 6th, but not sure about the fold. If he has made his Jack low, and doesn't improve, I would think I have about half the deck to improve. My problem with the whole hand is him calling on 5th with a face card and a pair. Granted, I have a queen showing but still think he's going to lose more often chasing there with jack-high. Again, I really only have a basic understanding of Razz, but thought this was really bad.

KATIE1988 · Warned Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 57

Without being to rude mate but what was the buy in for this particular
event.I mean this is probably were the true answer could be.

skeeter1114 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1959

This was a $5.50 forum HORSE event. It is run every Saturday at 14:00. Usually some very good play and players. In all honesty, I have not seen this Bryan guy before and do not know much about him.

FWIW, we ended up HU and I beat him to take this down.

KATIE1988 · Warned Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 57

Well done fella theres nothing better than beating the person that shafted you.But there u go thou,in a 5 doller event you are going to get nut jobs like him that dont really know what they are doing.Especially in horse were there is 5 different games played.It happens all the time.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject:

He played the hand really badly but don't use that to rationalize playing badly yourself. Just because he played badly doesn't mean you deserve to win the hand.

twodimes.net has you as a 70/30 dog here. If you check/call 6th then you have to call 7th when you improve to anything better than a J low which will be about 35% of the time. The other 65% of the time when you don't improve you will fold 7th having only lost one bet. Of the 35% of the time you do improve you will likely be beat by villain approx. 35% of the time when he improves also. I'm not 100% on these numbers and don't feel like working it out but I think you're better off just check/folding.

Also I think when you check here he'll probably check behind a lot. He's shown a lot of station tendencies in this hand but he's hasn't bet or raised once so I'd think he'd be just as happy to see a free card as you.

bryan24 · High Card Joined: 01 Jun 2008 Posts: 1

congrats on the win today skeeter. I enjoyed my first MBJ tourney so much that I will return next week. As for this particular hand, yes I was pushing the limits however I did so because I didn't believe u had much yourself and was feeling pretty good about my J for low.

And Katie, may I suggest 2 solutions for your obvious lack of knowledge here. #1 read Rob's posts about this hand or better yet, stop by the game next saturday and watch me play .

skeeter1114 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1959

Congrats on 2nd Bryan. I was ticked off at the time due to some other beats in other games so when I saw that, that pushed me farther.

I posted this to see if I was missing something. I'll assume you started with 7-5-J. I'm not sure I play this hand to 4th street, but that being said, I still don't get the call on 5th. Even if you don't think I have anything, you have to hit runner-runner just to avoid a jack-low. I'm showing Q-7-6, and unless you had an absolutely great read on me (didn't think I played that many hands in razz prior to this), you had to assume I was around 4 to a 7 low or maybe an 8 or 9 low. I guess what I'm curious about is why you played the hand on 3rd, and then called on 5th. Good luck in the rest of the MBJ HORSE and stop by for MBJ NLHE on Sunday nights.

KATIE1988 · Warned Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 57

Maybe i will go one better and join your cheap ass tourney next week and show u how to play this game for real you pennsylvanian piss ant.
So you called him down because u thought your j low was good.So you play with blind faith.

sgspecial · Flush Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 135

Honest_Rob · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:

Actually I did take the pot into account. I had written up a really long post about this hand but it got too long and complicated so I deleted and started over condensing into what I wrote.

The pot on 6th is 425. We have to call 100 to see 7th and when we improve we have to call another 100 to get to showdown(this all assumes he bets). So our odds are really 425+200(villain's bets)=625/200(our calls) or 3.125 to 1. This all assumes that we get to showdown and villain bets the whole way. Where it got really tricky was the other variables where we don't improve and fold and where villain doesn't bet certain streets etc so I just abandoned it and tried to keep it simple. If you'd like to work out all the variables here I'd like to see them but I don't feel like taking the time to do it.

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