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chillbot · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: $3.80 SUPER TURBOS STRATEGY

OK, I, too, also, am addicted to these. As a certain Kronxhole� said, "these things are like crack!" Funny things is, I played 50 of these and recorded the results... I thought I was losing money until I added it up and found I actually won a bit of money.

METHOD 1: PLAYING LAG (THE "DOUBLE UP EARLY" METHOD)

The turning point seems to be when 4 players are out, leaving 5. At that point you can [almost] play real poker instead of all-in-or-fold. Until it gets down to 4 I'm pushing all-in with almost any ace, pocket pair, KQ, or 72. Well maybe not 72, but sometimes.

I'm trying to double up quickly. It's important to maintain more chips than as many people as possible, so they can't knock you out.

COROLLARY I: The "chip and a chair" phenomenon is in effect, especially with how fast people drop and how easy it is to double or triple up.

COROLLARY II: It's especially important to have the most chips on the bubble when it's not uncommon to be eliminated at the same time as someone else.

METHOD 2: PLAYING TAG (THE "WAIT THE CRAZIES OUT" METHOD)

The biggest mistake I see is trying to play real poker, instead of all-in-or-fold, when you have 300 chips. Raising 3X the BB is pretty useless and a C-Bet is worthless. See Kiwi's Official � Guide to Set Mining to see how not to play these. (On a side note, Kronx claims the minimum raise works well in these, but I have no proof of this.)

But, when you're card dead, or at a crazy table with everyone madly pushing all-in, fold, fold, fold. I've found that you can fold your way down to 5 players and easily still have around 240 chips to work with.

THE NUMBERS

I've been recording the amount of all-ins, becuase I was curious if a certain style lent itself to less all-ins. By all-ins, I mean when at least one player has all their chips in the middle and it goes to showdown... not when you push all-in and no one calls. Below is the number of times I was all-in, followed by the number of times it was win-lose-tie.

The other (somewhat random) number I was recording is the amount of chips I had when the tourney reached 5 players, which, to me, is the turning point in the tourney. I have the individual numbers for all 50 tourneys if anyone is interested but I'll just post the summaries here:

(Note: Consider that over 50 tournies, I also paid $15 to the rake.)

All-ins: 204 (97-91-16) 52%
Average chips at 5 players: 370
Average finish: 4th (+ $27.35)

PLAYING LAG

All-ins: 108 (53-46-9) 54%
Average chips at 5 players: 393
Average finish: 4th (+ $8.95)

PLAYING TAG

All-ins: 96 (44-45-7) 49%
Average chips at 5 players: 346
Average finish: 4th (+ $18.40)

CONCLUSION

With only 25 tournies played in each style, the numbers are similar enough that I don't think it matters which style you play. Playing TAG was more profitable for me, but I lost more all-ins, because I would often be forced to go all-in with less than optimal hands.

Playing TAG seems to be a better method because I only averaged slightly less chips at the 5-player mark than playing LAG, but the LAG average is offset by the large number of times that I never made it to the 5-player mark, whereas playing TAG I almost always made it down to 5-players. Either way, I still averaged a 4th place finish over 50 tournies.

BBCOACH44 · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject:

WOOOOOOOOW Exclamation

Excellent Job Chill......... Wink

I must admit I was very close in the way I have started and this only
re-inforces what I am doing. Thanks, excellent Post.... Cool

chillbot · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject:

Actually I was thinking my OP was pretty much non-conclusive... I was hoping other people would add the strategies that work for them. Next I am going to try playing TT style-- folding any face card or ace-- and see how that works out.

BBCOACH44 · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject:

I will throw this out, I found for the most part, unless holding a monster I try and stay out of the way until the field is down to 4or5. Then I look to try and double up before the bubble..... Idea

cubbies760 · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:

I just played (12) of these over the last hour, in (4) game sets. I chose the super-aggressive option....basically shoving any hand AQs+/TT+ from EP, AJ+/88+ from MP, A9+/55+ from LP, and Ax/any 2 paint/any PP OTB or SB.

I was calling all-ins based on my opponent shoving with the same range of hands as I would be shoving with, other than the obvious garbage shoves.

I noticed that ALOT of players are shoving from any position with Ragged Aces, and QTish hands.

Once I was able to get a decent sized stack, if the blinds were still relatively low, I began to make some 3x BB raises with some of these hands, as opposed to just shoving them. I was content to sit on a 750 chip stack, unless I had a great hand, because so many people were just shoving like crazy. I let the field thin a bit, and started playing more aggressively 4 or 5 handed (near the bubble).

The bubble seemed like a stellar opportunity to steal blinds, as it seemed like the fear of bubbling was more prevelant than in regular SNGs.

Here are my results from the $3.80 ones, and I'll edit it as I go for the next few days (at least).

Current average ROI over 144 games = 32.98%

Loss / Loss / Loss / $15.75

Loss / $9.45 / Loss / $15.75

Loss / Loss / $15.75 / $15.75

$45.60 invested, $72.45 payout, $26.85 profit
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / Loss / Loss / Loss

Loss / $6.30 / $6.30 / $15.75

Loss / $6.30 / $9.45 / $9.45

$45.60 invested, $53.55 payout, $7.95 profit
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / Loss / $6.30 / $9.45

Loss / $15.75 / Loss / Loss

Loss / Loss / Loss / $15.75

$45.60 invested, $47.25 payout, $1.65 profit

I got sucked out on left and right in most of these losses. It was sickening. I consider it a great success that I actually profited a small amount, considering how horribly I ran here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / $15.75 / $15.75 / $15.75

Loss / Loss / $9.45 / $9.45

Loss / $6.30 / $6.30 / $15.75

$45.60 invested, $94.50 payout, $48.90 profit

I ran unusually well in these, as I'm not expecting this kind of return normally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / $9.45 / $9.45 / Loss

Loss/ Loss / $15.75 / $6.30

$6.30 / $9.45 / $15.75 / $6.30

$45.60 invested, $78.75 payout, $33.15 profit

I ran like God again. Geez, I love these. Very Happy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / $9.45 / Loss / $15.75

Loss / Loss / Loss / $15.75

Loss / $9.45 / $9.45 / $9.45

$45.60 invested, $69.30 payout, $23.70 profit

I'm sticking to this style of play, there are just too many people who want to play marginal hands against my better hands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / $6.30 / $15.75 / $6.30

Loss / Loss / Loss / $6.30

Loss / Loss / Loss / $9.45

$45.60 invested, $44.10 payout, $1.50 loss

After running well in the 1st set, I couldn't get anything going in the next 8 games. I was card dead for most of them, and made it close to the bubble with a short stack. I had to open up my shoving range a bit, and ran into bigger hands. Also, 1 of them was AA<KK on the 1st hand. Sad

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / Loss / $6.30 / $6.30

Loss / $6.30 / Loss / $6.30

Loss / Loss / $6.30 / $9.45

$45.60 invested, $40.95 payout, $4.65 loss

I really cannot imagine running as badly as I ran here, despite keeping the loss to a minimum. I lost with AA 3 times, and KK twice, as well as AJ<AT and 99<33<55. I also bubbled in 4 of the 6 losses, while having the best hand all 4 times when it was shoved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / Loss / $6.30 / $9.45

Loss / Loss / $6.30 / $6.30

Loss / $6.30 / $15.75 / $9.45

$45.60 invested, $59.95 payout, $14.25 profit
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / Loss / $15.75 / $6.30

Loss / Loss / Loss / $15.75

Loss / Loss / Loss / Loss

$45.60 invested, $37.80 payout, $7.80 loss

OMG! I bubbled on my last (4) games, with either the chip lead, or an above average stack 4-handed. That was sickening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / Loss / $9.45 / $9.45

Loss / $6.30 / Loss / $15.75

Loss / $6.30 / $6.30 / $15.75

$45.60 invested, $69.30 payout, $23.70 profit
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loss / $6.30 / Loss / $6.30

Loss / $9.45 / Loss / $15.75

Loss / $6.30 / $9.45 / $6.30

$45.60 invested, $59.85 payout, $14.25 profit

BBCOACH44 · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject:

I forgot to share my 1st 10 games results:

Invested 38.00 .. returned 53.55 .. profit 15.55

Good Luck ....... Cool

zamkin · Pair Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 35 Location: Erie, PA

Thanks for the tips. I am def looking for any and all info on these as I am addicted as well. I have been having some success early at them, but we will see how long it takes for others to get better at them.

I play them according to the table. Sometimes its TAG, sometimes LAG. You have to adjust to the players around you and no set strat going in is going to be the best method to pull off a cash each time.

I have found that my same basic gameplay for a normal turbo SNG works well. The only real difference is you have to put yourself at 10 BBs in a later stage of the game, so getting started is more difficult as you cant play many speculative hands.

I find myself being very aggressive early when I have 300 or less chips, any hand worth playing is worth all in for me at this point. If I double up then I have room to play some. It really all depends on how its going at that table, if its very weak I am going to raise alot and win easy pots without showdowns, if its a LAGfest I am going to tighten up.

If it makes any diffference I am winning at these. Here are my stats so far at the $3.50 stakes.

Total Tournaments (139)
1st (19)
2nd (16)
3rd (21)
Avg Finish (4.7)
ITM (40.29%)
Amount Won ($582.75)
Net Won ($54.55)
ROI (10.33%)

cubbies760 · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject:

Is anyone else playing alot of these?

If so, please post stats here. I'm finding them to be very easy to beat, and quite fun when played more than 1 at a time.

I think I found my new friend.

dcdoorknob · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject:

I've played quite a few, but I'm not keeping good stats on them, and I'm running somewhat bad. Played like 15 $7 ones last night (4 tabling for an hourish), ended down about $9. Lost 3 or 4 hands when I had my opponent dominated in the money (AQ<A5, A8<K8, etc..) so I ended up with a few 3rds and 2nds but I think just 1 first.

lovebeefstew · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject:

I have ran unusually well in these too. Yesterday. I went down to 5 chips. YES 5. There were 7 people left. So i just sat out and waited till my BB and SB put me all in. Before I knew it and after being all in 4 times and surviving it was down to 3 and I was ITM. HAHA. I had my 74 beat QQ and my A3 beat KK. In the end.... I took down the tourny after pushing every hand when ITM with like 50 chips. Just kept winning. Nice take down from 5 chips IMO.

cmbf117 · Straight Flush Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 374

I posted about these here: http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com/viewtopic.php?p=497142#497142

I've found them to be more lottery than poker overall, but I've been able to do well with a TAG style. I'd say chill's average of 4th place finishes sounds about right from my own experience.

One thing I've noticed, too, is that people who get big/early chip leads always seem to bleed them off. I guess they feel like they can play more hands, but I've found that if you get lucky enough to make it to 1k or more chips, tightening up almost always guarantees you a spot ITM.

dcdoorknob · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:55 am Post subject:

Well I had another session of 4 tabling $7 superturbos. Was still having all sorts of trouble winning with the best hand (or worst hand, but mostly best) once I got to heads up, taking multiple 2nds and no firsts. I was up about 2400 to 300 heads up in one, and the guy freakin came back to win it.

Finally, I was heads up again and my A9 all in got called by K4, I had him very slightly covered. K on the flop. I was about to scream. But an Ace on the river made me happy right quick. Actually ended up about $50 on the night.

Also, like I mentioned in another thread, these can be really great if you want to amass some FTPs for iron man or something at low stakes.

cmbf117 · Straight Flush Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 374

These things are sooooo aggravating. I just played 2 and lost to suckouts both times, one of them major. The latest was Qd 6d vs 9Tos, I get a 6 on the flop but he spikes a 9 on the river. The one before that, though, is the grossest. I have pocket queens, guy rolls over QJ, flop comes with 2 jacks. GRRR.

EDIT: And yet again, i'm screwed once more. Some guy has A 6, I have A 5, I get my 5, he gets runner runner flush.

And AGAIN, I get it in with A7s, he has A6s, board gives us both straights. GRRRRR

EDIT2: So after 14 of these, I'm down about $12.25. Not cool. Sad

cubbies760 · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject:

LostOstrich · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject:

I've played a total of 74 of the $7.50 super turbos. My total returns (from $555 invested) are $824.40. Not massively impressive, but I'd point out that I've played these games over about a 4-hour period (spread over 3 days).

I just play basic short-stack tournament poker: ie shove big hands early, shove pretty much anything late, only call an all-in with a monster. The level of play in these games is super-dumb, I can't believe the amount of limp-folding that goes on.

Of course the variance is wild, but we can temper that by multi-tabling (no reads are necessary really, just play as many tables as you feel comfortable with. I get harassed when I play more than 5.)

I expect to have played at least 500 of these by Sunday night. I'll post the results as and when. But it's pretty clear that these games are an absolute goldmine, and potentially the best thing that's happened to my BR since my insurance payout.

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