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--pde1969--

Hi all - first post so please be gentle!

I have a simple question - What, realistically, can I expect to learn from playing low stakes SNG and MTTs?

I have been playing for about a year and quite intensively over the last three months. In addition to playing I have been reading .. Brunson, Sklansky, Harrington etc as advised on these fair boards. So, I feel I grasp the fundamentals regarding starting hands, position, stack sizes, bets, odds etc etc but it seems almost impossible to apply them at low stakes whilst trying to learn.

Does that sound fair or arrogant? I try and put players on hands or ranges based on their play but things don't come out as I expect. I don't think I should win every pot and I am realistic of my own ability but my plays seem to be completely thrown in the air by players who call with (what I and my literature call ....) ridiculous hands out of position etc.

I try and apply good logic and solid basic fundamentals of poker but, against players who play any two cards and call any all-in with them "just for the gamble" doesn't seem to work as I sort-of expect. Again, no "I must win" arrogance here ... Smile

So, do I need to play at high(er)levels to get through this and learn from better players or, do I need to sit tight and keep trying, learning and, at some point, a bit of winning.

thanks for anything and everything!

Smile

RunnerJohn · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:36 am Post subject:

I've only been playing since January, so I'm quite a bit newer than you. I lost my ass at the cash tables for three months before I started playing $2.00 SNG's. Then my game started changing. In the SNGs, even at the lowest levels, I've started developing my skills. However, I still managed to lose quite a bit. In the past two weeks or so, I've been playing $6.00 SNGs and I've tripled my bankroll. I like to think that it's that I've learned to play better, but that's not all. At the lowest levels, you get a lot of people who play it almost like a slot machine. It's only two bucks, right? So why not just gamble? So, I think as your own skill develops, you will definately do yourself a service by moving up in buyins.

That's my opinion, and what else counts? lol

dontmarryher · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject:

Hello,
He is correct. At low stakes,people gamble more, and also do not understand maybe the fondamentals so.I think at these stakes one must tighten up just a bit. I agree at higher stakes,people who know what they do can win more.
Look at chris fergusson experiment . It took a long time for him to get any money while playing low stakes , though once he hit higher stakes, he wins more.
All the same, you can hone your skills a lot cheaper on low stakes as at high stakes.
Good luck
Dontmarryher

KGBlovesOreos · Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 5319 Location: VA

I believe you absolutely need to be able to beat the stakes you currently play for before you move up. Yes, there are MANY more players willing to gamble at the lower stakes, but if you aren't able to adapt and adjust to these players at these levels, you'll have a hard time adapting and adjusting to the more complex players at the higher stakes games.

Just stay where you are, be VERY patient, and grind it out until your BANKROLL is ready for the next level. Only at that point should you evaluate whether or not you are ready skill-wise to move up in stakes.

--pde1969-- · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:

OK. Thanks for the replies guys.

I sort of feel I have to be able to beat the level I am playing at rather than wonder about everyone else. It does seem a little too easy to blame other people for what may well be my short comings ....

So, here we go on a low stakes grind! Surprised

JDizzzle72 · Royal Flush Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 533

Correct, worry about yourself first. If you can't seem to be able to make a profit, look for leaks in your own game first before blaming the level of play around you.

The micro levels ARE in fact beatable, I promise you that. And you have to show a profit at your current level before you move up. If you can't beat the lowest level of competition where you should show profit if you keep putting yourself in what you believe to be +EV situations, then IMO there's a leak on your part. Keep at it thought and keep improvign your game. I'm sure you'll show progress soon enough. GL!

XPLODO · High Card Joined: 29 May 2008 Posts: 1

joeqnight · Pair Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 34

What you learn at the low stakes game is patience. Tighting up and patience at the low stakes is absolutely important if you want to beat them. Yeah there are some advanced techniques you can't apply in the lower stakes that u must make when your player tougher games but as you move up, you can apply them then. You also have to remember that at these stakes many of the players just don't know fundamentals or are gambling for fun and don't really care about ev and all that stuff. Remember you can bluff a good player but you can't bluff a calling station that will call you all the way with bottom pair. Just grind it out. GL at the tables

--pde1969-- · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:23 am Post subject:

Hey guys, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post. I'll take on board everything said and advised and keep on learning.

cheers! Very Happy

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