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spieler22 · High Card Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Posts: 1

hi
just wondered how many people out there with similar experience.ive played nl poker for about 2yrs (cash ) a typical senario is like this ,
deposit $150 play 25max get up to $500 play 50max get upto $1000 + play $100max ,start dreaming of being a hero lose a few buyins get frustrated and either cash out ,freefall and cash out slightly more than original buy in .i think the problem i most suffer is when i originally deposit im focused but after 3 weeks of non stop playing my mind becomes hazy and so poker oriantated i lose all good poker judgement,i so want to play $400 max but i just cant reach it .

so i guess my question is can we play too much poker
or am i taking it too seriously and should just be content beating the smaller game for fun

thanks Very Happy

mistaken69 · Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject:

esperz · Full House Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 220

My rule of thumb, which isn't exactly good bankroll management, is that when you can play 3 tables at once and earn at least 15 bb in an hour and do that for 20 hours with 90% consistency, then you move on up.

I've dimed myself from .25/.50 that to a consistent 3/6 that way and it appears to be working well. If you lose a total of 3 buy-ins in a row, then its time to move back down. I doubt that I'll ever move beyond 3/6 beyond token play, as my profit margin between 3/6 and 5/10 is immense.

But, I guess my mode only makes sense if you are passive. If you are aggressive, then I suggest the following:

Look at Chris Ferguson's bankroll management. It appears to be excellent, sound advice but I'll be the first to admit such patience is beyond me.

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2131

esperz, if you move down every time you lose 3 buy ins in a session, then you are too nitty with your BR. The whole concept of a bank roll is so that you can continue to play your stakes even if you have a losing session. I'd only move down if you fall below 5% of your total BR or if you fall below whatever buy in requirement you have made for yourself.

OP, I think that setting a goal like this for yourself is a pretty bad thing to do. Instead, your focus should be on improving your game and making a consistent earning. If you do that, then 400NL will come eventually. Focusing on what specific level you are playing at or aiming to play at is a bad mindset for a poker player to have.

Also, just play at whatever level is the most +EV for you. If you are not making $ at 400NL, then move down to a level that you have beat before. Building a bank roll doesn't necessarilly mean that you have to move up. Play whatever level is best for you. Take some shots at higher levels, but if it doesn't work out, there is no shame in sticking to the level you can beat.

esperz · Full House Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 220

My method worked for me. That's all I can say. Nitty it may be, but it has a way of balancing itself out.

But for everything else, I agree. Just work a the level where you show the most profit consistently. You'll start to find that level rises on its own.

bdbranch · Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject:

Yes many people (including myself) can play too much poker. The idea of lots of practice makes perfect isn't exactly correct. What's been discovered in recent years is that too much can impede performance. And it's very individual.
As for bankroll, I disagree with esperz. You should only make a step up when you can safely & securely succeed in doing so. Any unsuccessful step up (such as esperz uses) results in you moving further backwards then if you didn't make the step up and requires much more effort just to get back to the pre-stepup position.

If your mind gets hazy and you don't want to lose your money then step away for awhile. Some of us just can't play good poker for hours on end, days at a time.

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2131

esperz · Full House Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 220

I understand your concern. It almost never works out to 'only' 300bbs, or three buy-ins tho.

I think I got a pretty good feel on my bankroll and I've had more than my share of downswings. While I'll be the first to admit I can't follow Jesus's guidelines, I'm well within the 5% (although I was somewhat certain he suggested 1%, where I am nowhere near) margin at 3/6.

It just happened to be, for me at least, that when I could operate at the upper levels, my bankroll happened to support it. It wasn't exactly slow, steady growth... I was very erratic in both peformence and dollar amount for close to 6 months before I evened off at a comfortable pace to where I am now.

But for me, anyways, I don't think I'd ever go beyond 3/6 despite however big my bankroll is due to, (in my eyes) the huge difference in play and aggressiveness. I've found my comfort zone and I won't be straying from it unless I get a huge turn of bad luck/ bad play.

I have no shame admitting I've gotten lucky or that I was irresponsible with my bankroll early on, but I think I've pretty much matured into a safer player.

bdbranch · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:45 am Post subject:

esperz · Full House Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 220

You're taking me entirely too literally, but I can appreciate the sentiment.

If, on average, I'm pulling in 5% of my sit-down on a very consistent (54 out of 60 hours) basis... That would clue me to move it on up. I'd continue to do so where I am no longer making a consistent profit. If I am NOT making at least 5% on a hour, I would move myself to a point where I could.

I'm not calming this is hard math, but a general guideline that I have used. I am very much aware that very nature of poker places extremely high variance both in the positive and the negative regard on any kind of tracked play. I am very aware that it is very possible to double up or get stacked out very quickly. ...but if on AVERAGE, I am making 5% on 90% of my sitdowns in a reasonable collection, I consider that my personal marker that I consider to move on.

But I am a very passive cash game player. I try not to go all-in outside of tourney play unless I have the nuts or the opponent makes it so. For me to enter an all-in situation with a losing hand is extremely rare indeed. For me to get stacked three times would take an extremely long time and I'd have to be extremely unlucky (.25*.25*.25). I am not the guy who intiates a shoves with KK, I am not the guy who calls an equal all-in PF with QQ-. But, this isn't stupidity either, I'd gladly call a shortstack (20bb or less) with AK, QQ. But, if for whatever reason, I get stacked three times, I automatically downshift myself. This protects me from myself, whether from tilting or a really bad turn of cards.

And, if you were following my guidelines, you'd be down a single play level... not bunked to play chips.

The furthest I've ever been down (outside of token play) to was 1/2 and it took me nearly 2 weeks by my own guidelines to play myself back to 3/6. But, you know, it protected my roll and taught me patience. Its nearly to exhaust your bankrolln doing what I'm doing. I'm in it for the long haul... But, I guess, if by some freakish event that I ever flushed myself... I'd probably redeposit 1k and start again at the .25/.50 stage.

The above would probably happen from tourney play, as I really never play anything below 24+2 outside of token play.

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