Online Poker Forum at Full Tilt Poker

Wahooka · Two Pair Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 69

I'm trying to build a bankroll and I'm consistently winning at 6 person NL tables so I know that is profitable for me to play in them... but I love to play tournaments, especially 45 people multis... only catch is I never finish in the money and entering tournaments is eating 20-30 percent of my bankroll each month... I want to stop but I enjoy them more then ring games...

Do you consider tournaments a rip-off, or is it possible to consistently win 45 person (6 are paid) enough to make them profitable?

Wahooka

bright star · Four of a Kind Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 269

Though some will reccomend against it, suggesting it may harm your skills longterm.

Zophar · Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject:

They can be profitable when you've become a solid tournament player. I would slowly add them to your schedule, as to not drain your bankroll when you hit a rough patch. Stick with whats profitable to build up a bankroll strong enough to withstand any fluctuations.

nopepperjack · Pair Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 49

It is a different type of game, tournaments are like three or even four seperate games within a game. Playing a ring game is more steady.

NoPepperJack

GripHoldOn · Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject:

Yes, they are profitable, Wahooka, for now play very cheap ones though, and make most of your profit from the shorthanded NL games. Try to do what you can in the MTT's, but don't risk enough in them that your bankroll would take a significant hit if you were to go on a cold streak.

Bronco232 · Full House Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 197

I agree with Grip. Don't invest a ton in them, and especially with the new $1 90 player tourneys, you should be able to gain good experience cheaply. I think you also need to decide what your goal is with this. Some are purely to increase their bankroll and try to become a high limit player. Others may hope to make a few bucks here and there and mostly play for fun. I'd say if you enjoy tournaments, keep at'em! Give those dollar ones a try and see how they go, then if you start cashing in some try a couple $5 90 man ones and see how that goes.

I think everyone goes through this, where one area of the game is your strength and funds the other games. For you, it seems to be the ring games are your moneymaker and tourneys are more fun. For me it was the opposite, 1 table sit n goes funded my cash game education, and while it took a while, I have been showing a profit in both the last 1/2 year and my cash game has actually started to exceed the sngs.

All in all, keep at it with the tournaments, there is no replacement for actual time put in at'em and practicing. Full Tilt offers a variety of low cost tournaments so as mentioned above, stick to those at first until you improve. Harrington's first 2 volumes would also be great reads and would be guaranteed to improve your game. Good Luck!!

pcj505 · Pair Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 43

I'm kind of going through the same thing right now. I love multi-table tournaments, but the last month or so I haven't had much luck with them. I've finished in the money several times but not high enough in the money to make them profitable in total.

I actually won the second online MTT I ever played in about 5 months ago (amazing, because I think I'm a much better player now). I withdrew a lot of the money (I wish I hadn't), but if I factor that win into my profits, I would still be making a profit in total. So I guess my point is that you need to look at tournaments, especially MTT's, as more of a long term proposition, as compared to cash games.

flafishy · Three of a Kind Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 77

I agree with what everyone else is saying. Don't spend a ton of money on them. But when you have a few extra bucks that you could afford to lose, give it a shot now and then. The thing is with MTTs, you'll bust out out of the money most of the time. If you can just get into the money for a small profit enough times to pay for the times you miss the money, that's good enough reason to keep trying for a huge payoff.

I generally play one, sometimes two MTTs a week, and I hit a low money spot about a third of the time, which translates to breakeven for the times I miss the money. But about every two or three months, I'll get to a final table for a pretty good payday and I'll finish first or second in one about every six months or so for a huge payday.

The point is, keep grinding it out at the single-table SnGs and/or the cash games to keep your bankroll healthy. But treat yourself every now and then to a chance to hit a big payoff. By going at it that way, you'll not be hurt if you never hit one, but you'll give your roll a nice boost if you do happen to hit one at some point.

FatStacks06 · Royal Flush Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 736

If you are building a bank roll, I would just stay at the 6 handed games... You have to stay where you are best suited. MTTs can be tricky since so much changed from the start of the tourney, to the middle stages, to the bubble and then the final table. You have to have all kinds of gears and discipline, as well as get really lucky a few times to even get to the money. The 90 person SNGs aren't as long and only really have 2 stages. The 1 and 2 table SNGs can be very profitable at the lower levels if you are patient and get your money in with premium starting hands. (You'll win a lot of pots with AK/AQ over AT/Ace-rag) I mix it up a lot. I make more money in ring games, but enjoy tournament play as well since the amount you can lose is no greater than your buy-in, which you've already paid. You just have to aks yourself what your goal is. If you want to make money and build a BR than stay at the 6 handed tables. If you want to be a winning tournament player and don't mind the hit your BR will take to do it then go for it. Just be clear with yourself about what it is that you are trying to accomplish.

mathman1115 · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject:

Yah the new tier system is great you can invest smaller amounts of money at one time to try and win tokens. I love the 6.60 18 player tourneys cause i just enter like one or two every now and then. If i get top 4 i get the 26 token and if i don't i have only lost like .5% of my banroll which obviosly is insignificant. When i comes down to it, even if you dont' save any money for the buyins, you at least spend it much slower plus you get the advantage of playing the sit n go to work on your game

Wahooka · Two Pair Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 69

Thanks for the advice... I actually finished first in a 45 person multi last night, so I made back all my money plus a few bucks Smile

But breaking even isnt my goal, so I'll stick to what you suggest...

Wahooka

KarlDykhuis · Flush Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 135 Location: Minnesota

Shortly after FT started (1.5 or so years ago now?), I won my first ever tourny. I look back and think about what a terrible player i was. A few days after that win, I finished 5th in another tourney. I thought to myself, this is too easy, lol. Well as my skills improved, my tournement play went in the crapper. I don't get it, was I just lucky? I'll never forget that first tourny when I had about a 5:1 chip lead on everyone at the final table, even knocked out Andy Bloch early for a small bonus (of course he was crippled by a hand a few minutes earlier).

I now concentrate on ring games and SnG's with the occasional tournament when I have some time to play them.

tcwhat · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:02 am Post subject:

There is nothing wrong with branching into tournaments.

What you should consider is, what are the buy-in's you are playing at and the current bankroll you have?

If I were you, I would think of MTT's like cash games. For example, in a cash game, you only have $100 in your bankroll, and you sit down at a $1/$2 NL game. That is not a very wise move because it doesn't allow you to absorb variance while playing that game. What you should do is build your bankroll and when you can absorb a loss and still be comfortable, then move up to that $1/$2 NL game you dream about.

Apply the same principle with MTT tournaments. Start with the smallest buy-in possible. When you can win a MTT and consistently place in the money, move up to the next higher buy-in. Don't let the allure of the bigger prize distract you(for example, playing in a $215 tournament while your bankroll is a modest $600 or so).

Also, take good records of your tournament buy-in's, as they can accumulate fast and that will let you know when you are doing well or not. You will need a good sample size to determine if MTTs are good for you or not.

princebalf · Flush Joined: 15 Jan 2006 Posts: 129

i play alot of MTT's and they have to be the most profitable game online for me.

i think the best thing to do if you want to get into MTT is discipline. if your bankroll is say $100 dont play anythign more than a $5 tourny, also limit yourself to the number of MTT's you play a day.

i find on pokerstars if i do well in 1 tourny i will do well in almost everyone i play in that day. so i keep this in mind alot when i sign up for tournies. if i lose badly in say 3 tournies i may play 1 more but thats it. but if i do well in those 3 i may play 5more that day.

if u want to get a good feel for MTT's and want to get a good RvR play pokerstars $3 buy in tournies. they give the best RvR. 2000+ people usually sign up, it pays 20% of field so around 400-450 spots and id say about 1300 of those players are donks. so if you are a solid player u should cash about 7 out 10 times in these easy.

and remember MTT is all about strategy, u can not play them like a cash game.

also keep track of your MTT's. write down the buy-ins, profit, size of field is really important, u may do better in low field MTT than higher ones keep that in mind as well.

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