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cubbies760 · Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: The Minimum Bet

Alot of players seem to discount the legitimacy of the minimum bet. Whenever there is even a slight mention of the minimum bet, most respected players usually begin implying (or flat out stating) that the offender is either a donk or a n00b.

I've noticed that the majority of times that advice is critical of the minimum bet, it's justified criticism. It's usually someone who hit a nice flop, and gives the villian(s) a great price to chase a draw. Then when the villian pushes back on a 3-flush/3-straight board, the minimum bettor reluctantly pays him off with Top Pair.

I hardly ever use the minimum bet....the only times that I can recall making a point to use it is when my opponent is a calling station and I'm drawing. I'm usually sure that he's gonna call down, while giving me the chance to draw at the cost of 2BBs. Then I have the opportunity to have him pay me off if/when I hit. If I miss, I can get away from a small pot.

I've also used it on the river as a defensive bet if I'm not crazy about calling a value bet.

I've been playing almost exclusively $6 and $11 NLHE HU SNGs, and I'm amazed at the number of opponents that are using the minimum bet. There are many times where this is the only size bet used by the villian. The villian has no hesitation to fire out a pot-sized raise PF, but when it comes time for his c-bet, it's always a minimum bet.....every single time.

I can see that sometimes it provides the bettor with a read on his opponent based on what reaction his opponent has. It can probably serve as a tool to see where your opponent stands on a particular flop.

The interesting thing about this is that I'll usually run to sharkscope to try to get a general idea of what type of player I'm up against. Most would expect to see fishbowls, slippery slides, and lots of red, but I'm seeing a trend here....these players are usually in the black, with a decent sample size.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if this is some sort of legitimate strategy. I'd like to know how any of you use the minimum bet, if you use it at all, or if the minimum bet is utterly useless.

I'm specifically noticing this in HU NLHE SNGs, so I'm more interested in its potential use there, but I'd like to hear any discussion on the use of the minimum bet in general.

Sand Wedge_100 · Full House Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 203

I hate the min bet. And the min raise specially the min raise preflop. It SHOUTS I GOT AN ACE OR LITTLE PP, At least in the $2-$5 SNG. So I guess I really should like it.
I haven't played many HU games but I've noticed that OPR also showes some of these guys as OK?? players. I guess some of them know when to fold a raise and some don't.

nilgiri · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:48 am Post subject:

I use minbets all the time. They are great against people who are really weak, because I'm risking very little to see if they have a hand -- they just fold when they miss. They are great against very aggressive people when I have a big hand, because they are often interpreted as no hand and raised. They are even better in these cases late in a SnG.

HU a lot of people fit into these two categories. They are either really weak postflop, or they are hyper-aggressive and raise whenever they sense weakness.

Also, many many people have no idea what to do HU against a serial minbettor's c-bet. Here's some strategy: If your opponent is a fishy CS, just call and then value bet if you hit something. A lot of people aren't huge stations, though, and will just fold if you raise them. So raise them. Often times you can raise them a small amount, they will call, and then on the turn, you bet another small amount and they will fold.

gonefshng · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:30 am Post subject:

I like the use of minbets or min raises. I use them rarely and it's situational of course. I find them effective some what in HU, especially minraiseing every button against a weaker player, just to frustrate the **** out of them.

If I can get someone to categorize me as a donk or weak player because I throw out a min bet, it works in my favor, (even if I am). I don't use them as blocking bets on the river, because when I was trying that it rarely ever worked and I gave it up quick. If you find an opponent it works on, by all means use it.

I think it's best used as a smallball tactic and for the confusion factor.

jeffr8 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 1268

I love the minbet, ONLY on the flop though.
For example:
I get KK, raise up like 6bbs preflop, get 2 callers...
flop comes like K72, I MINBET, they sense weakness, and re-raise me...i ponder for a good 5 seconds, then call. Insta check the turn, they continuation bet and I hit the checkraise...
Love that play!

sixandfour · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject:

I occasionally use a minbet in those situations like jeffr8 stated, flopping top set or a big flush or straight. Just a setup bet to look a little douchy and hope the villain tries to take it away from me there or on a scare card on the turn.

I also use it on rare occasions when I know a guy called me down on a big pot with a draw and missed, just to salt the wound a bit with the 150:1 odds. Twisted Evil

It's really funny when they fold.

Starvingwriter · Full House Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 174

I use the minimum bet on the following occasions:

1. When I'm stealing preflop from the small blind and the big blind has shown they're weak enough to fold to such small pressure. Why use three bets when your opponent will take two as the same message?

2. Often when wanting to "limp" into a pot (pocket pairs and suited connectors, etc.). I don't want to be the first one into the pot with just a call, because then I'm still enticing raisers to try and push me out. Many times, someone that was going to go with a 3xBB bet will just call here, so I'm sneaking in cheaper.

3. When I'm early in the betting and want to encourage action. Holding AA or KK.

4. When I want to give my opponent the opportunity to hang themselves. Against a highly aggressive player, the minimum re-raise works wonders. If you put out a strong re-raise they may actually put you on a hand, but a minimum reraise may be incorrectly interpreted as a steal. Basically, if my opponent is going to bet at me like a madman and I'm holding the nuts, I want to give him the opportunity to bet at me as many times as possible, and a minimum re-raise does that.

Two thoughts in closing:

1. I won't use the minimum bet in these situations every time. Playing online poker, almost all of a read your opponents can get on you comes from betting pattern. Playing aces or suited connectors or *any* hand the same way every time is a giving your opponent an easy read.

2. It's important to use any bet in your arsenal a variety of ways. If I only used the minimum bet holding aces, or only with suited connectors, I'm giving my opponents easy reads (again). I'm aware that the minimum bet is slightly less than optimal in some of the above situations. However, I strongly believe it's worth occasionally giving up a few chips by betting two blinds when you should bet three, or by betting two when you should just call, to keep your opponents guessing. Giving up a little here will make all your hands pay off better, because you'll be harder to read.

HuJwang · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject:

It probably has its merits as a blocking bet against really bad players who will bet if you check to them, but won't raise a small bet. Even then it is only useful when the pot is small, because even bad players realize that a $1 bet into a $20 pot doesn't really mean anything. And in a lot of those circumstances it may be better anyway to just make a bigger bet so as to give yourself some fold equity.

HuJwang · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject:

Honest_Rob · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject:

Only n00bs min. bet.

jeffr8 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 1268

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2132

The problem with the min bet is that you use it to keep the pot small. Most people use it with draws or as blocking bets. When you go up the stakes, good players realize that and play back at you with air (and not even just good players, many mediocre players learn this too).

gonefshng · Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:11 am Post subject:

GoldenDomer9 · Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject:

Cubbies,

In short, the answer is "no". There is not a legitimate strategy at work here.

If you're seeing it a lot in the $6 and $11 SNGs (which are incredibly soft), well these players have to be playing amongst themselves when you aren't around, right? Someone has to win those matchups, so if your opponent is up a few bucks in these, I wouldn't start giving too much credit that they're actually on to something.

The min bet is so exploitable and just horrible, horrible, horrible imo.

GoldenDomer9 · Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject:

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