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Starvingwriter
Full House
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 153
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 Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Is there a way you spot a set? |
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I'm just curious if there are any players out there that have become adept at folding otherwise good hands and dodging a flopped set your opponent is holding.
In an entirely random example, say I hold AK at a single table SnG. I raise preflop and get called by one player. The flop comes
Ac Kc 9h
I want to protect my hand against a flush draw, so I drop out a pot sized bet, and get a reraise to 3x the pot.
Now, I don't mind being in this position at all. At least in low stakes tournament play, a player who re-raises here will have AQ, A9, or even something weaker, or for whatever reason believe that "semi-bluff" means "giant bet with a flush draw." I'd say as much as (and maybe more than) 80%-90% of the time, I'll shove here, get called, and pull in a bunch of chips. But, is there a way to kind of "feel out" when someone is holding that dreaded 99, or do you just accept that 10% of the time you're just going to pay off the set? |
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stenrick
Four of a Kind
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 324
Location: ever seen the animaniacs..."is this hell or are we just in Ohio?"
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| About the only way I can think of how you might have an inkling would depend on how long you have been playing that person. Watch how they play their hands, and you might get a read for when they are playing a set. Otherwise, I would just accept that you're gonna be behind the small percentage of the time. |
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Totes2Techs
Full House
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 188
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Is there a way you spot a set? |
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[quote="Starvingwriter"]I'm just curious if there are any players out there that have become adept at folding otherwise good hands and dodging a flopped set your opponent is holding.
Phil Helmuth? I hear he can dodge bullets, baby!
In an entirely random example, say I hold AK at a single table SnG. I raise preflop and get called by one player. The flop comes
Ac Kc 9h
I want to protect my hand against a flush draw, so I drop out a pot sized bet, and get a reraise to 3x the pot.
Now, I don't mind being in this position at all. At least in low stakes tournament play, a player who re-raises here will have AQ, A9, or even something weaker, or for whatever reason believe that "semi-bluff" means "giant bet with a flush draw." I'd say as much as (and maybe more than) 80%-90% of the time, I'll shove here, get called, and pull in a bunch of chips. But, is there a way to kind of "feel out" when someone is holding that dreaded 99, or do you just accept that 10% of the time you're just going to pay off the set?[/quote]
Reload or get into another tourney! |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6494
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Your example is pretty bad. I mean there are times you can be fairly sure you're up against a set, or at least 2 pair or better, when you have a good one pair hand. In your example though, you should be focusing on getting the money in. In SNGs the same thing can usually be said for situations where you hit only 1 pair with AK and the stacks are rarely deep enough to worry about sets. With deeper stacks though, I think probably the biggest clue that top pair or an overpair isn't good is someone passive coming to life on the turn. A ton of action in a multiway pot or on a dry board are other good signs of one pair being no good. When it comes to specifically AK on an AK9 flop though, there are basically no situations where you should even consider folding the flop or trying to keep the pot small. |
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dcdoorknob
Royal Flush
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 802
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| I wanted to fold my set of twos in the iron man (bronze) freeroll earlier today on a 9s 6c 2d 10s board, but I couldn't do it. Sure enough he had 66. I don't imagine I'll fold it next time either. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6494
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| dcdoorknob wrote: |
| I wanted to fold my set of twos in the iron man (bronze) freeroll earlier today on a 9s 6c 2d 10s board, but I couldn't do it. Sure enough he had 66. I don't imagine I'll fold it next time either. |
Why would you ever put yourself in a position where you'd want to do that, and how do you even get in a position like that at all in one of those freerolls? |
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Starvingwriter
Full House
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 153
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| Your example is pretty bad. |
For the sake of the question, I chose an example where being against a set would be the only hand you'd be worried about. If I had used an example such as holding AK and the board comes:
8c 9c Ah
There's a wider range of hands to worry about. A9, A8, as well as straight flush draws would all have you going into the turn behind. Since I wanted to find out if there were any particular giveaways that my opponent might have a set, I didn't want these other hands clouding the issue. |
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dcdoorknob
Royal Flush
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 802
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| dcdoorknob wrote: |
| I wanted to fold my set of twos in the iron man (bronze) freeroll earlier today on a 9s 6c 2d 10s board, but I couldn't do it. Sure enough he had 66. I don't imagine I'll fold it next time either. |
Why would you ever put yourself in a position where you'd want to do that, and how do you even get in a position like that at all in one of those freerolls? |
I don't even know, it was a weird 3 way hand, and I didn't really have any business even wanting to fold (it is VERY rare that I do ever want to fold a set in a tourney on a board like that), I just had a bad feeling that time, as villains line made the most sense with a set and not as much sense with other stuff to me. As for getting in that position, I guess the presence of he third guy who was min-raising every other hand and mini-betting 2 or 3 streets most of the time complicated things, and may have caused us both to play weird. |
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mistaken69
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 1505
Location: taking up smoking
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| i spot sets by looking down at my hand, and having a pocket pair connect with the flop. sets are delicious. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6494
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Starvingwriter wrote: |
For the sake of the question, I chose an example where being against a set would be the only hand you'd be worried about. If I had used an example such as holding AK and the board comes:
8c 9c Ah
There's a wider range of hands to worry about. A9, A8, as well as straight flush draws would all have you going into the turn behind. Since I wanted to find out if there were any particular giveaways that my opponent might have a set, I didn't want these other hands clouding the issue. |
Well the thing is that people will generally play most two pairs, and often worse hands as well, in the same manner as they play a set, so putting someone on exactly a set is rarely a possibility. In addition, if your hand is strong enough that only a set beats it you should generally be concerned with how to get your stack in rather than looking for monsters under your bed. |
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cubbies760
Next Year Is Here
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 5934
Location: Suburban Chicago
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I have an uncanny knack for spotting sets when I can't get away from an overpair. |
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