|
| Author |
Message |
Sethide
High Card
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 14
|
 Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Should you alway bet with a good draw? |
 |
|
I did play this hand poorly, but it makes me wonder:
"Should you alway bet with a good draw?"
I finished the tournament at 27th... 
Full Tilt Poker Game #6280272707: $100 Freeroll (47682915), Table 45 - 6000/12000 Ante 1000 - Limit Razz - 1:55:07 ET - 2008/05/04
Seat 1: Deisterass (60,804)
Seat 2: Crushed_Beatle (51,962)
Seat 3: StanHar (64,030)
Seat 4: jmdist (39,884)
Seat 5: brando390 (97,690)
Seat 6: Sethide (63,085)
Seat 7: rebusmaxx (111,778)
Seat 8: mustang0765 (103,978)
Deisterass antes 1,000
Crushed_Beatle antes 1,000
StanHar antes 1,000
jmdist antes 1,000
brando390 antes 1,000
Sethide antes 1,000
rebusmaxx antes 1,000
mustang0765 antes 1,000
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to Deisterass [8s]
Dealt to Crushed_Beatle [3d]
Dealt to StanHar [9h]
Dealt to jmdist [5s]
Dealt to brando390 [2h]
Dealt to Sethide [2c 7d] [5c]
Dealt to rebusmaxx [9s]
Dealt to mustang0765 [Jc]
mustang0765 is high with [Jc]
mustang0765 brings in for 2,000
Deisterass folds
Crushed_Beatle folds
StanHar folds
jmdist folds
brando390 completes it to 6,000
Sethide calls 6,000
rebusmaxx folds
mustang0765 folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to brando390 [2h] [3h]
Dealt to Sethide [2c 7d 5c] [5h]
brando390 bets 6,000
Sethide calls 6,000
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to brando390 [2h 3h] [Kh]
Dealt to Sethide [2c 7d 5c 5h] [Th]
brando390 bets 12,000
Sethide calls 12,000
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to brando390 [2h 3h Kh] [Qs]
Dealt to Sethide [2c 7d 5c 5h Th] [Jh]
brando390 bets 12,000
Sethide calls 12,000
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to Sethide [2c 7d 5c 5h Th Jh] [6h]
brando390 bets 12,000
Sethide calls 12,000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
brando390 shows [6d 4s 2h 3h Kh Qs Ac] 6,4,3,2,A
Sethide mucks
brando390 wins the pot (106,000) with 6,4,3,2,A
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 106,000 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Deisterass folded on 3rd St.
Seat 2: Crushed_Beatle folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: StanHar folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: jmdist folded on 3rd St.
Seat 5: brando390 showed [6d 4s 2h 3h Kh Qs Ac] and won (106,000) with 6,4,3,2,A
Seat 6: Sethide mucked [7d 6h 5c 5h Th Jh 2c] - T,7,6,5,2
Seat 7: rebusmaxx folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: mustang0765 folded on 3rd St. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
scotyno
Pair
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| he was the favorite on every street he bet so yeah |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sgspecial
Flush
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 128
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| scotyno wrote: |
| he was the favorite on every street he bet so yeah |
Actually he wasn't. Unless the villain had A4 in the hole (instead of A6 or 46) he was a tiny underdog on 6th st, and with A4 he was a miniscule favorite. Either way betting 6th was a poor decision in a tournament because gambling for a big bet when the limits are so high risks far more in chips than your expectation. With different dead cards, his strong draw on 6th could have been a significant favorite over your made JT low so watch out for spots like that in the future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alex j beeson
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 581
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There was nothing wrong with his bet on 5th street.
On 6th street however, you were definately ahead and you and he knew it, however slight you were ahead.
He got lucky on the 7th, it could have gone very badly for him.
The villian was just "in for a penny in for a pound" thinking maybe. Most likely he was on A234 on the 4th and decided he was going to win no matter what....(maybe not realizing chances of hitting the wheel decreased greatly when you paired the 5's) all he needs is a 5,6,7,8,9 or 10 on the 7th and he wins. Anything else he would lose likely.
His bet on the 5th was to try to get you to fold.
I assume he would hope you would fold on his 6th street bet.
I can't really say you played the hand poorly either. On the 5th street if you had folded may have been a bit too tight. On 6th street you were most surely ahead slightly and it all came down to the luck of the draw on 7th. Which you recognized it appears. You had to call the 7th street because he may have paired (any 2,3,J,Q,K and 4,A) on the 7th giving you the win and his bet would have been the only way to win, had that been the case.
Tough luck on this one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dumwaldo
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 1596
Location: look to the stars
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Your call on 4th was questionable but there is no way you should have called on 5th. You hit your second brick against the villains first. There is no possible way you are ahead here and you are now chasing a runner runner situation against a possible wheel draw from a player that has bet every chance he could and your best hope is a 5, 7 low if the cards come absolutely perfectly.
There is an axiom in fixed limit games to fold early and call late. When he put out the first big bet on 5th you are basically deciding to call 3 bets and have a showdown. The ONLY way your draw was better than his would be if he was a complete bluffing idiot.
I do not think you made very good decisions here.
DW
PS
I thought Alex might be interested in this...
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alex j beeson
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 581
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dumwaldo wrote: |
Your call on 4th was questionable but there is no way you should have called on 5th. You hit your second brick against the villains first. There is no possible way you are ahead here and you are now chasing a runner runner situation against a possible wheel draw from a player that has bet every chance he could and your best hope is a 5, 7 low if the cards come absolutely perfectly.
There is an axiom in fixed limit games to fold early and call late. When he put out the first big bet on 5th you are basically deciding to call 3 bets and have a showdown. The ONLY way your draw was better than his would be if he was a complete bluffing idiot.
I do not think you made very good decisions here.
DW |
Ah Yep your right, Folding on the 4TH (not 5th) street may be a little too tight play (questionable) but yeah if you have 2 bricks out of 5 cards it may not be such a good idea to continue. I ammend my previous statement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sethide
High Card
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 14
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| alex j beeson wrote: |
| On 6th street however, you were definately ahead and you and he knew it, however slight you were ahead. |
That's what I thought too, indeed I should have fold on 4th but I thought at least I have one of his out (Wrong thought in this case I guess).
Thank you both for your explanations, it will surely help me to improve my game. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scotyno
Pair
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sgspecial wrote: |
| scotyno wrote: |
| he was the favorite on every street he bet so yeah |
Actually he wasn't. Unless the villain had A4 in the hole (instead of A6 or 46) he was a tiny underdog on 6th st, and with A4 he was a miniscule favorite. Either way betting 6th was a poor decision in a tournament because gambling for a big bet when the limits are so high risks far more in chips than your expectation. With different dead cards, his strong draw on 6th could have been a significant favorite over your made JT low so watch out for spots like that in the future. |
ok good point, i was assuming a4, 6th is basically a coinflip, I would probably check, but betting isn't really terrible |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sgspecial
Flush
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 128
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dumwaldo wrote: |
PS
I thought Alex might be interested in this...
|
If you're going to run hand simulations, I think you might be interested in this - there's a spot to enter the dead cards you have already seen. Try putting in the cards already folded in this hand and see how your simulation turns out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KATIE1988
Pair
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 49
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What a an arrogant,sad and pathetic little man you really are mr snot-so-very-special.
Sethide my first advice for you is to not take advice from
"scotty the batty" and "snot-so-very-special".Their play is sub standard at best were else i am the genuine article.
Right let me begin shall i,okay 3rd street right u got 725 and he has got 2,your average stacked by the look of it and brando has about 30000 more.So u have just flat called thats fine unlike some people they cream their pants and try to keep reraiseing it all in when they have only got 3 cards.
Right so 4th street now you have 2755 so u paired 5 and hes now got 23.He fires again you call,now thats cool baby because you want to see the make or break 5th street.
Okay 5th street here it comes you now have 275510 and he has 23k.Right he bets again and you call.See now thats were i think you have gone wrong my matey,i would of suggested you fold, end off, next hand, forget about it, finito.
Why? i hear you say,
Because **** it you are now going for a runner runner and his 23 could be very live u dont know, all u know is your hand,and it aint that live and he is now gonna keep on betting on 6th and 7th which are the bigger bets, by my calculation your now gonna be nearly all in or handicapped eigther way.And i dont know about u but when i play hold em i dont go all in on a runner runner draw do you?
Because thats basically what your doing here,knowing full well that if you call now on 5th your going all the way.
So there you have it big boy a little help from a class act and you will go a long way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sgspecial
Flush
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 128
|
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KATIE1988 wrote: |
What a an arrogant,sad and pathetic little man you really are mr snot-so-very-special.
Sethide my first advice for you is to not take advice from
"scotty the batty" and "snot-so-very-special".Their play is sub standard at best were else i am the genuine article. |
Who is this really, mrs. Matusow? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
