| What Starting Hand Causes you More Problems? |
| A-K offsuit |
|
33% |
[ 7 ] |
| J-J |
|
66% |
[ 14 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 21 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6593
Location: Quitting smoking
|
 Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| I probably shove AK and fold JJ, but that could be too tight. I really don't have a ton of experience in tourneys in general, and most of the SNG experience I do have is almost a year old so the ranges of typical villains aren't very clear to me anymore. You should be slightly more likely to get it in early in MTTs than in STTs though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Honest_Rob
Postmaster General
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 5116
Location: trying to get back to even
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I shove both but I don't really play NLHE SNGs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bdbranch
Banned
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 503
Location: At home wdyt. Btw. I'm not opinionated all the time, umm can you be opinionated when you're asleep
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| skeeter1114 wrote: |
This is the situation I refer to as being a tough one. My first instinct here is to shove all-in, especially at the low limits (all that I play). But, should I be willing to race in this situation every time or fold to my 90 chips and wait for a better spot. Do you play one hand differently than the other, and if so, why? |
Niether hand should be folded. As to anything else, that depends on what level you are playing and where. I'd possibly would have been happier if the reraise was to 450 instead of 300 because it's almost a nowhere situation regarding postflop play in my view. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bdbranch
Banned
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 503
Location: At home wdyt. Btw. I'm not opinionated all the time, umm can you be opinionated when you're asleep
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Riddim wrote: |
| I probably shove AK and fold JJ, but that could be too tight. I really don't have a ton of experience in tourneys in general, and most of the SNG experience I do have is almost a year old so the ranges of typical villains aren't very clear to me anymore. You should be slightly more likely to get it in early in MTTs than in STTs though. |
I do disagree about this. The only 3 villian hands that makes JJ worse than AK ok is QQ, AQ & KQ and the later 2 of these ain't disastrous. Any pp below JJ makes JJ a superior option, and KK - AA is bad for both options. Any other nonpair combination generally places JJ in a relatively strong position postflop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6593
Location: Quitting smoking
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bdbranch wrote: |
| Riddim wrote: |
| I probably shove AK and fold JJ, but that could be too tight. I really don't have a ton of experience in tourneys in general, and most of the SNG experience I do have is almost a year old so the ranges of typical villains aren't very clear to me anymore. You should be slightly more likely to get it in early in MTTs than in STTs though. |
I do disagree about this. The only 3 villian hands that makes JJ worse than AK ok is QQ, AQ & KQ and the later 2 of these ain't disastrous. Any pp below JJ makes JJ a superior option, and KK - AA is bad for both options. Any other nonpair combination generally places JJ in a relatively strong position postflop. |
Actually, after looking at the type of range we need to be up against for the decision to be close with either hand, I realized that making a difference between them here is pretty ridiculous. They're both close to flipping even vs. a range as tight as 99+, AQ+, so I'd shove both in the example posted given how many dumb hands people seem to like getting it in with early in micro tourneys. One advantage to AK that you're missing though is that having it makes it harder for our opponent to have AA or KK. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
esperz
Full House
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 220
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I believe JJ is tricker for the same exact reasons you have. I lost more money in individual pots with JJ than I ever have with AK.
Scenario is always the same. I re-raise with JJ if applicable then I see a bottom board. I'll bet into it and get called with someone who rolled into their 6 outs... or sometimes, AA-QQ. That almost never happens with AK as I usually nullify 50% of their outs to start with, and its pretty easy to fold in any multi-pot.
That said, my single most profitable pots also originated from JJ with sets. Such as AJ8 or similar (KJ8, QJ7). In higher stakes where everyone with little exception is less likely to throw away top pair, you are going to get paid off big time.
But as for those two individual hands, I'd have to advocate calling with both... unless you got a donk read on the re-raiser (in which case, I'd probablySeeing the huge reraise, you can almost be assured of that individual betting into it again (for the same reason as above). This is where your individual playing style and reads come into effect. Did this man re-raise with AK or AQ in the past? Does this man even ever fold (you know what I mean)? If my individual is an AK or AQ reraiser, I'd probably reraise to 700 or so with my JJs and call with the AK to reassess and possibly bluff him on the turn.
But, with no other information on the betters, I'm going to have to say call both. AKos really can't be folded and JJ is what it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DrAndrian
Four of a Kind
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 328
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| In a 3- or 4-bet pot, I'm much more nervous with JJ than AK. It's hard to improve with JJ, but with AK you can play it like AA/KK against the right opponents. You can also play AK as a semibluff-type hand; even if your opponent has a pocket pair (particularly a low or middle pair), they can't feel too good when you make a continuation bet, and even if they call you, 1 out of 4 times you hit your A or K. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DrAndrian
Four of a Kind
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 328
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| esperz wrote: |
I believe JJ is tricker for the same exact reasons you have. I lost more money in individual pots with JJ than I ever have with AK.
Scenario is always the same. I re-raise with JJ if applicable then I see a bottom board. I'll bet into it and get called with someone who rolled into their 6 outs... or sometimes, AA-QQ. That almost never happens with AK as I usually nullify 50% of their outs to start with, and its pretty easy to fold in any multi-pot.
That said, my single most profitable pots also originated from JJ with sets. Such as AJ8 or similar (KJ8, QJ7). In higher stakes where everyone with little exception is less likely to throw away top pair, you are going to get paid off big time.
But as for those two individual hands, I'd have to advocate calling with both... unless you got a donk read on the re-raiser (in which case, I'd probablySeeing the huge reraise, you can almost be assured of that individual betting into it again (for the same reason as above). This is where your individual playing style and reads come into effect. Did this man re-raise with AK or AQ in the past? Does this man even ever fold (you know what I mean)? If my individual is an AK or AQ reraiser, I'd probably reraise to 700 or so with my JJs and call with the AK to reassess and possibly bluff him on the turn.
But, with no other information on the betters, I'm going to have to say call both. AKos really can't be folded and JJ is what it is. |
I agree that when JJ hits, it becomes a monster. Against a tight opponent, I'd rather just call their raise and play to hit a set. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6593
Location: Quitting smoking
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DrAndrian wrote: |
| I agree that when JJ hits, it becomes a monster. Against a tight opponent, I'd rather just call their raise and play to hit a set. |
Please tell me you're talking about some other scenario and not the hand someone posted where hero makes it 90 with 1500 stacks and gets 3bet to 300. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rezod212
Pair
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
|
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Last JJ I had turned out like this. Decent preflop raise. 4 callers. flop hits Q-8-J, push all in to cash on a decent hand and villian flips over QQ. go figure. I HATE JJ. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bdbranch
Banned
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 503
Location: At home wdyt. Btw. I'm not opinionated all the time, umm can you be opinionated when you're asleep
|
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rezod212 wrote: |
| Last JJ I had turned out like this. Decent preflop raise. 4 callers. flop hits Q-8-J, push all in to cash on a decent hand and villian flips over QQ. go figure. I HATE JJ. |
I hate AA, I've lost to it (actually 11 times in a row on AP cash games). I'm never going to play AA ever again. Wah, it's all rigged, rigged I say, rigged I say again (for no particular reason). Wait, I've won my last AA battle. AA is good, AA is gold.
If you won't play a hand because you've lost to it, then you might as well lock that door, shut the blinds and hide under the blankets.
Every single hand can win or lose. It's just that some have a better chance then others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rezod212
Pair
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'll just hide under the blankets when I get dealt JJ.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
