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Mmkay123456 · Full House Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 202

Im ALWAYS in 4th place in SnGs. Any strategies for avoiding this and at least cashing??

Mmkay123456 · Full House Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 202

yes finally after a drought of like 8 not finishing in the money i got first! Thank God!!!!!!!!!! Still I encourage you to post advice as I have a lot to learn.

leighs · Four of a Kind Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 301

My main objective in a sng is to cash so I probably approach the bubble differently than those who focus on winning.

My strategy is generally based on relative stack sizes with adjustments for my observations about the playing style of my opponents.

Generally, the medium stacks will be tight and the big stacks and the short stacks will be loose.

If I am not short stacked:

I try to be most aggressive against the medium stacks. I will bluff them post flop, raise more liberally preflop, etc� If they play back, I give up the pot unless I have a great hand. Generally, I try to win a lot of small pots against them.

If the short stacks are overly tight then I do the same against them. If the short stacks are good players though, they will be looking to double up and it won�t take much for them to push. It is not a good idea to bluff someone who can�t wait to get their chips in the pot. If they are pushing a lot, I will try to trap them by sometimes limping with good hands preflop, checking top pair on the flop etc�

The big stacks are generally going to be loose and aggressive. They can afford to lose some chips so they will make loose calls. They will also be trying to pressure the table by raising and re-raising. I try to avoid confrontations with the big stacks unless I have a very good hand. Then I try to use their loose aggressive style against them to win large pots either by making overly large bets that look like semi-bluffs that they will call or by making continuation sized bets so that they will raise and I can re-raise.

Sometimes the big stacks, once they know they will cash, just sit out most hands. If that happens, then I play more aggressively to accumulate chips.

If I am short stacked:

If it looks like someone else will go out before me, then I will try to hang on by folding pretty much everything. I have to think this is highly likely due to either that I have significantly more chips or that they are playing incorrectly by pushing too much or by not following a push/fold strategy and getting too much of their stack tied up in pots that they lose.

Usually, I will not wait for someone else to go out. Once I have less than 10 BB�s, I either push or fold. If no one has bet, I will push with a wide range of hands. If someone has already bet, I will be more selective and base my decision on how tight or loose the player is.

reissmgr · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject:

follow leighs game plan and you should be golden, great advice on bubble play.
just some further thoughts to get enough chips to get through the bubble is to be tight earlier, letting the others weaken one another's stacks. use this time to take notes on players or check hand histories if you get bored from folding.
trapping can be great at building big pots and building your stack, but i usually do this in the early rounds with monster hands, by doing this in the later rounds you might end up weakening your own stack, due to the blind sizes, by letting a draw hit and maybe putting you out on the bubble. i just dont chance it near the bubble unless i have the nuts.
once it gets to headsup i usually trap with high pair or made straights/flushes and pray my opponent hasn't hit the board harder, for me at this point i figure it is go big or go home (taking second).

FatStacks06 · Royal Flush Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 736

Play only premium hands early (PP, AK/AQ/AJ, high suited connectors) raise at least 4XBB, if you get a called and hit raise the pot. Most of the time people will fold, especially if you have been playing tight and have shown down good hands. Don't concern yourself with bluffing too much, if you don't hit, just fold. Until the blinds get to be at about 80/160 there really is no point in stealing them, because if you get caught you are out. But if you are short-stacked there is only one move you can make... all-in. Put all the pressure on your opponent to call, target the medium stacks with this, not other shorties or the big stacks, as they will want to gamble. When in doubt, fold, fold and fold some more. Making the money should be your goal.
I've found at the lower level SNGs, a lot of people push with paint cards (KQ, QJ, KT, Ax) so having any pocket pair against them makes you a favorite. Make them pay all their chips (or yours) to see the flop.

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4177

Post some hand histories. Do you usually go into 4th as the shortstack? Do you loosen up, or play tight (I like loosening up - play to win, not to cash, but that's just me...)? Etc, etc.

Mmkay123456 · Full House Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 202

Blacksting · Flush Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 130

Usually the kind of people I see break on the bubble are players with sound poker fundamentals..... but they dont PAY ATTENTION. They will fold to players who have shown a high propensity to bluff etc... because they have not been adamant about watching the other's betting patterns.

Knowing that a large raise behind you (3-4x BB) may only be A 10 from a certain player is HUGE if you are holding A Q in a sit and go. Sometimes you get stuck on a suck out or an actual good hand from these players but more often than not you will take their chips. Knowing when to fold to the same bet from another player is also huge. It is this kind of attention to detail that will push you over the bubble. Most players just play fundamental poker based on what they hold.... and they will bubble to the aggressors and the lucky.

I was playing a sit and go recently where a player was in every hand and bet on every street.... and I had to actually speak up at the table and admonish the players that were folding to him.... they just did not pay enough attention to know that he had done this.

Deweypc20 · Straight Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 118

One thing I find works for me, is when it gets to crunch time, ie 4 and 5 players left, become more aggressive.

Players are so worried about just making the money that they play timid hoping others will make mistakes and bow out before them.

This of course works better on the medium and short stacks.

It can be an good time to start stealing blinds from the shorter stacks, as at this time they seem they will tend to only play monster hands.

Also, this can help put in you in better position to finish 2nd or 1st. So many people play timid here that if they do make the money, they are so short stacked, they have no chance to move up. This will not help you win money in the long run, you need to take some wins to be profitable.

Mmkay123456 · Full House Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 202

Thanks for all of the advice. Since this post ive made around 180 bucks on sngs! Thanks again!

hyperionsix · High Card Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 1

First of all I would like to say that each reply to this post was sound. There is some VERY good information in their comments.
My strategy (9 and 6 chair Sit and Go's)
In the beginning I lay back unless I have a monster hand.
I feel the table out and watch the ever present one or two kamikazies take each other out or be taken out.
If I have tight players ahead of me (one or two, maybe three) and the others have folded I will play my pairs aggressively. All things being even or close to it with respects to chip stacks I will make them pay to see the Flop.
I know this next sentence will get varied responses. IF I find myself with AA and especially if the table it tight I will go all in no matter how many people are ahead of me. I want a call in this situation with the chance to double up. What I don't want is someone sitting there with 77 and getting to see the Flop for "free". This doesn't always work naturally. But I've had better than average "luck" with AA heads up. Still.....there is the occasional suck out.
When there are only a few players left you will normally find that some of them will be tight (to make the money) while others will "Play big or go home." ( I loved that post) Heads up you're in the money. Be aggressive.
My last piece of advice; and for me this works. With only a few players left at the table I do not tango with the chip leader heads up. I don't mean the chip leader by a few hundred chips. I mean someone that is $2K or more ahead of me. Unless I have a VERY strong starting hand I just don't take chances on AQ, 66, etc. Most chip leaders will opt to see the flop and perhaps more without an extreme concern for low betting from you. God forbid you get tangled up with a slow playing chip leader.
Have to run for now. Good luck and take care.

Gypsydc · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:37 am Post subject:

Lederer has a podcast on this...something about play for 3rd place, then play to win. I do well in tournaments both live and online (sng's online) and I play a fairly tight game in the beginning, loosen up on and near the bubble, then I play to win. Really it's just a lot of practice.

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