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fiddlepuck

ok. i juts took 10 days off of ONLINE poker, and played about 40 hours of live poker in Calgary this last week. Did Very well. Had 5 out of 6 winning sessions. ($1000 profit for the week, in 1/2) Funny I can do well in 1/2, but get my ass kicked at 5c/10c. So anyways, after a week of no online, and some solid poker, I decided to drop $50 down, and play some 10c/25c. (I dont care about a bankroll. Here is the first hand back and then the 4th hand back. (had two uneventful in between) The first one I was posted automateically and fell into it.

So the question is this, how far do I have to move up in limits to not see this BS? I never saw a single ridicolous play like this in LIVE POKER all week, and this happens in two of my first four hands?? WTF? What level do I need to play at to not suffer through these types of variances??? (the second example I had some information about the villian that affected my play. (his previous raises were all BS, and he had fired two bullets into pots several times with no hand.)

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 PL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $15.05
BB: $18.50
Hero (UTG): $25
UTG+1: $15
MP: $39.20 (THIS GUY JUST CHASED AND WON WITH NO ODDS, THIS AFFECTS MY AGGRESSION HERE)
CO: $21.85
BTN: $12.35

Hero posts $0.25
UTG+1 posts $0.10
Pre-Flop: 6

7

dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero checks, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, BTN calls $0.25, SB calls $0.15, BB checks

Flop: ($1.75) T

6

7

(7 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1.50, UTG+1 folds, MP raises to $3, 4 folds, Hero raises to $10.80, MP raises to $34.20, Hero calls $13.95 and is All-In

Turn: ($51.25) K

(2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($51.25) 9

(2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $51.25 Pot ($2.55 Rake)
Hero showed 6

7

(two pair, Sevens and Sixes) and LOST (-$25 NET)
MP showed A

Q

(a flush, Ace high) and WON $48.80 (+$23.80 NET)

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $20.80
UTG+1: $23.90
UTG+2: $90.50
MP1: $26.85
MP2: $20.55
CO: $20.70
Hero (BTN): $20.55
SB: $10.50
BB: $20.45

Pre-Flop: T

J

dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.25, UTG+2 raises to $1.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.50, SB folds, BB calls $1.25, UTG+1 calls $1.25

Flop: ($6.10) K

J

(4 Players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets $3.25, Hero calls $3.25, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $3.25

Turn: ($15.85) 5

(3 Players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets $7.25, Hero raises to $15.80 and is All-In, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $8.55

River: ($47.45) 3

(2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $47.45 Pot ($2.30 Rake)
UTG+2 showed A

A

(two pair, Aces and Jacks) and LOST (-$20.55 NET)
Hero showed T

J

(three of a kind, Jacks) and WON $45.15 (+$24.60 NET)

mathman1115 · Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject:

Skill will prevail at all levels. It's the variance from level to level that will vary.

DJ Ninjah · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:03 am Post subject:

Mathman is right about his answer.

As far as the hands, Hand #1 is super standard. FD + overs + backdoor straight draw = shove OTF against most opponents.

Hand #2 is a bad call by the Hero PF, and pretty much the rest of the table. The rest is a standard overplay of aces.

fiddlepuck · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:46 am Post subject:

I disagree on the bad call, on the button, agaisnt a typically weak playing opponent. I have discipline to let SINGLE PAIRS go, so I dont worry too much about kicker issues. i cant remeber the last time I was in a situation where I was outkicked.

I guess my question is, when Do people stop overplaying their SINGLE PAIRS and FLUSH DRAWS so often?

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4226 Location: ROK

They never really stop playing their single pairs and flush draws which is why the game is still so profitable. Do you really want people folding their 5 outers to you? Or fold the flush draw when you give them incorrect odds? Seriously man, if you want them folding these hands you need to pick a different game.

Congrats on running good live. But I agree that calling 6xBB w/ TJs is really marginal at best. If you're playing for 2pair or better you need like 25:1 implied to play this hand. If you think you'll be ahead w/ one pair or can take the pot away with out hitting the hand you're hoping for your odds are pretty much break even with those stack sizes. I rarely see a 6xBB raise at full ring to be anything less then AQs+, JJ+. Which makes TJs really really marginal.

fiddlepuck · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:43 am Post subject:

Cmon, we all know its the not the size of the raise, its how they use it!

BUT, lets see. Using you're calling standards, this is how my day yesterday would have went. (instead of having a ton of FUN (which is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF POKER) winning and losing pots, and taking away $470.)

I owuld have bought in for $140. Watched the table play hand after hand for 7x-10xbb raises, and then after 4 hours finnally play KK. Too bad, the guy to my right had AA. Oops. And since standard raise was $20, and I rerasied him PReflop, and he was shortstacked..... Guess what happens?

Premium hands make players leave the table either bored or broke.

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2107

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4226 Location: ROK

I really really don't mean to sound egotistical here, but these new guys must seriously have never read the forums. They really don't know who I am, and if you regular this forum it should be pretty obvious that I don't advocate being a complete nit in cash games. I'm willing to mix it up as much or more then anyone here and do it profitably. Note that last part.....profitably. You picked a really bad spot to do it in and the guy with AA made no mistake other then his bet sizing like drtre said.

BTW I'd bet the 25nl games on FT are actually tougher then your little 1/2 live game. Having played a significant amount of each I can say it with certainty that it's pretty damn close.

Also, I'm obviously a huge nit:

PokerStars Game #15512136526: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/02/24 - 04:41:18 (ET)
Table 'Appenzella III' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: 4KINGACEMAN ($30.30 in chips)
Seat 3: jammidodger ($19 in chips)
Seat 5: ATTL ($49.30 in chips)
Seat 6: ArmyGolfer ($62.25 in chips)
ATTL: posts small blind $0.25
ArmyGolfer: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ArmyGolfer [Jc 9d]
4KINGACEMAN: folds
jammidodger: folds
ATTL: calls $0.25
ArmyGolfer: checks
*** FLOP *** [2h 7h 5c]
ATTL: bets $1.50
ArmyGolfer: calls $1.50
*** TURN *** [2h 7h 5c] [Kh]
ATTL: checks
ArmyGolfer: bets $3
ATTL: folds
ArmyGolfer collected $3.85 from pot
ArmyGolfer: doesn't show hand

Damn, good thing I waited for a monster like Jack high.

fiddlepuck · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:52 am Post subject:

So are you guys saying that I can expect to see people play without any regard for the odds AS OFTEN at 10c/25c as at $10/$25. Casue that is my question.... Not whether a 6xbb raise is technically correct or not. It is technically correct if the implied odds are there....... I want people to call with draws, I want people to overplay. But not as often, and not as severe. I dont think you would catch any great player consistently making plays like those two people....

The reality is that I find it way more funwhen I lose my chips casue I screwed up and I got outplayed, then I do for bad play ebing rewarded. I know there needs to be bad play, Im just looking for a better balance.

BTW. Thx for saying I was running good, but I was actually tottaly card dead. I won the money without ever having a straight, only one flush, no full houses, and only 4 sets. I won money by folding KK to 7d8d9c boards, I won money by not drwaing to fljushes when I could be counterfieted by a full house or better flush, I never once said "Ill pay you off." I never went fishing. I won by making position bets, and possition calls. Thats all. I cant wait to actually run good......

sixandfour · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:46 am Post subject:

fiddlepuck · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:10 am Post subject:

I make a mistake on every hand I play, every table selection I make, every bet I make. Im here to find out what other poeple think, and understand how they veiw the game, so I can defend myself against them. I want there to be a balance, Im ok with people being donks to a certain extent. There has to be a balance, where the players I play against are thinking as much as I am. Where the players aren't often just pushing and praying. There has to be an element of gamble, or else poker wouldnt work. I just want to play with fewer people who less often play with their eyes closed.

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4226 Location: ROK

Wow I just noticed something seriously wrong with your play. YOU POSTED UTG!!!! WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? Do you make money in your blinds? No! No one does. So why would you pay to play one hand? I hope losing that hand was a lesson to you. IMO you deserve it after posting UTG.

Second thing, even though you got paid off in full for your TJo you still didn't hit the implied odds number required to play such a marginal hand profitably. Which I find completely hilarious while you defend your play. You got paid 15:1 when the loosed recommendation I've heard for hands like that is 20:1.

Hopefully you can see that we are be harsh to help you. You really need it.

Also "only" 4 sets...lol. You definitely didn't run good or anything Rolling Eyes

. You think running good just has to do with the hands you hit? It has to do with everything. Including when your position bets works, when they don't. When you get called down light. When you hit anything. I can say with absolute certainty by the way I've seen you play that running good was a big part of your profit. Not all of it. Obviously you could run neutral and turn a profit but I don't think a 5 buy in profit is in that range.

fiddlepuck · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:01 am Post subject:

So you guys will go to town on small minor mistakes/adjustments, and tottaly justify spending spending $25 on a flush draw at 2:1 against an opponent who LIKES his hand? calling off chips when all signs point to you having a three outer? WOW.

I also didnt run good, since it was my worst ever set of sessions.and its only a 3.3 buy in profit.

sixandfour · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:14 am Post subject:

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4226 Location: ROK

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