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fire_eyes_2k
The Burn Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3469
Location: London
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 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: I can't fold this can I? |
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Full Tilt Poker Game #4761849828: Table Sundoro (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 15:16:54 ET - 2008/01/06
Seat 1: bushidobob ($19.50)
Seat 2: fire_eyes_2k ($62.40)
Seat 3: PotParty ($69.25)
Seat 4: olavi1985 ($41.25)
Seat 5: larsen20 ($33.50)
Seat 6: piliwaiwai ($57.35)
olavi1985 posts the small blind of $0.25
fire_eyes_2k is feeling angry
larsen20 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to fire_eyes_2k [5c Kh 3c Ah]
piliwaiwai folds
bushidobob has 15 seconds left to act
bushidobob folds
fire_eyes_2k raises to $1.75
PotParty folds
olavi1985 calls $1.50
larsen20 raises to $7
fire_eyes_2k has 15 seconds left to act
fire_eyes_2k calls $5.25
olavi1985 calls $5.25
*** FLOP *** [7h 6d 4d]
olavi1985 bets $21
larsen20 has 15 seconds left to act
larsen20 raises to $26.50, and is all in
fire_eyes_2k has 15 seconds left to act
fire_eyes_2k raises to $42
olavi1985 calls $13.25, and is all in
fire_eyes_2k shows [5c Kh 3c Ah]
olavi1985 shows [7d 4h Qd Qh]
larsen20 shows [Ac Jd Ad Ts]
Uncalled bet of $7.75 returned to fire_eyes_2k
*** TURN *** [7h 6d 4d] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [7h 6d 4d Qs] [4c]
fire_eyes_2k shows a straight, Seven high
olavi1985 shows a full house, Queens full of Fours
olavi1985 wins the side pot ($15.50) with a full house, Queens full of Fours
larsen20 shows two pair, Aces and Fours
olavi1985 wins the main pot ($97.50) with a full house, Queens full of Fours
larsen20 adds $10
larsen20 adds $20
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $116 Main pot $100.50. Side pot $15.50. | Rake $3
Board: [7h 6d 4d Qs 4c]
Seat 1: bushidobob didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: fire_eyes_2k showed [5c Kh 3c Ah] and lost with a straight, Seven high
Seat 3: PotParty (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: olavi1985 (small blind) showed [7d 4h Qd Qh] and won ($113) with a full house, Queens full of Fours
Seat 5: larsen20 (big blind) showed [Ac Jd Ad Ts] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fours
Seat 6: piliwaiwai didn't bet (folded)
OK so calling the reraise preflop is questionable, larsen obv. has AAxx, but is anyone folding the flop there? |
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bigwheell
Royal Flush
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 830
Location: North Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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You had 45% equity against their hands...You only needed 33% equity to break even when you got all your money in on the flop.
Omaha is a funny game in that you can have the current nuts and you will still lose the hand more than half the time...
Omaha Hi Simulation
666 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 7h6d4d
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
5cKh3cAh 44.67% 296 3
AcJdAdTs 33.18% 221 0
7d4hQdQh 22.15% 146 3
This is a simulation against their post flop ranges...
probable Set and an AA hand
Omaha Hi Simulation
558,096 trials (Randomized)
board: 7h6d4d
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
5cKh3cAh 41.98% 226,219 16,238
AcAd** 16.70% 90,664 5,208
4h4s** 41.32% 224,143 13,053
It would seem that both you and the set guy are making the right play when there are 3 people all in.
Same scenario, but I gave his AA a nut flush draw and against same set...
This would give you 27% equity
Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: 7h6d4d
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
5cKh3cAh 27.31% 160,228 7,256
AcAd8d* 33.83% 202,090 1,821
4h4s** 38.86% 228,605 9,077
The best way to learn the game is to write down a few hands that trouble you and run them againts an equity calculator...
Kinda like I did above...
I would have folded to the reraise preflop. The players are generally bad enough at this level that you don't need to get in tough situations post flop...
As played, I would have gotten all my chips in, but I wouldn't have been happy about it... |
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Pil Sung
Four of a Kind
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 261
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: I can't fold this can I? |
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| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
Full Tilt Poker Game #4761849828: Table Sundoro (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 15:16:54 ET - 2008/01/06
Seat 2: fire_eyes_2k ($62.40)
Seat 4: olavi1985 ($41.25)
Seat 5: larsen20 ($33.50)
*** FLOP *** [7h 6d 4d]
olavi1985 bets $21
larsen20 has 15 seconds left to act
larsen20 raises to $26.50, and is all in
fire_eyes_2k has 15 seconds left to act
fire_eyes_2k raises to $42
olavi1985 calls $13.25, and is all in
OK so calling the reraise preflop is questionable, larsen obv. has AAxx, but is anyone folding the flop there? |
The only thing that would worry me here is that it's olavi that is betting and larsen calling all in. I think in cases like this (where you are more worried about the flush draw or top set than AAxx), you might be better off just calling and waiting for a good turn card. That way if the board pairs or the flush hits AND your opponent comes out firing, you've saved yourself some money.
In this case, it may not have mattered, but still...... |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 6431
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: Re: I can't fold this can I? |
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| Pil Sung wrote: |
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
Full Tilt Poker Game #4761849828: Table Sundoro (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 15:16:54 ET - 2008/01/06
Seat 2: fire_eyes_2k ($62.40)
Seat 4: olavi1985 ($41.25)
Seat 5: larsen20 ($33.50)
*** FLOP *** [7h 6d 4d]
olavi1985 bets $21
larsen20 has 15 seconds left to act
larsen20 raises to $26.50, and is all in
fire_eyes_2k has 15 seconds left to act
fire_eyes_2k raises to $42
olavi1985 calls $13.25, and is all in
OK so calling the reraise preflop is questionable, larsen obv. has AAxx, but is anyone folding the flop there? |
The only thing that would worry me here is that it's olavi that is betting and larsen calling all in. I think in cases like this (where you are more worried about the flush draw or top set than AAxx), you might be better off just calling and waiting for a good turn card. That way if the board pairs or the flush hits AND your opponent comes out firing, you've saved yourself some money.
In this case, it may not have mattered, but still...... |
For $13 more? I mean I know it's tough to imagine you're still good, but you'd be getting like 8 or 9 to 1... The all-in guy could have just had AAxx with nothing else, and the other guy might have had some sort of straight wrap that missed, or something else. They're remote chances, but you don't need much to call getting such good odds. I would much rather get my money in on the flop than have to make such a tough decision. |
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bigwheell
Royal Flush
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 830
Location: North Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I agree with HUJwang that the money needs to get in on the flop with this hand...
Be patient and wait for better spots to get your money in against these guys...
You should have folded to the reraise in this hand...IMHO |
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Pil Sung
Four of a Kind
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 261
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: I can't fold this can I? |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
| Pil Sung wrote: |
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
Full Tilt Poker Game #4761849828: Table Sundoro (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 15:16:54 ET - 2008/01/06
Seat 2: fire_eyes_2k ($62.40)
Seat 4: olavi1985 ($41.25)
Seat 5: larsen20 ($33.50)
*** FLOP *** [7h 6d 4d]
olavi1985 bets $21
larsen20 has 15 seconds left to act
larsen20 raises to $26.50, and is all in
fire_eyes_2k has 15 seconds left to act
fire_eyes_2k raises to $42
olavi1985 calls $13.25, and is all in
OK so calling the reraise preflop is questionable, larsen obv. has AAxx, but is anyone folding the flop there? |
The only thing that would worry me here is that it's olavi that is betting and larsen calling all in. I think in cases like this (where you are more worried about the flush draw or top set than AAxx), you might be better off just calling and waiting for a good turn card. That way if the board pairs or the flush hits AND your opponent comes out firing, you've saved yourself some money.
In this case, it may not have mattered, but still...... |
For $13 more? I mean I know it's tough to imagine you're still good, but you'd be getting like 8 or 9 to 1... The all-in guy could have just had AAxx with nothing else, and the other guy might have had some sort of straight wrap that missed, or something else. They're remote chances, but you don't need much to call getting such good odds. I would much rather get my money in on the flop than have to make such a tough decision. |
Then reraise, and put all your money in with a straight. This isn't Holdem where a made straight on the flop is a big favorite.
My suggestion (and it was only a suggestion) is that IN THIS CASE you could easily just call and see what the turn brings. You can't be reraised by the bettor, so you're not risking anything. But the flop aggressor was not the preflop bettor, and in Omaha, that usually means that he has a big hand or a big draw. You have a big hand but no draw.
You're up against two other players as well.
As I said though, in this case, it would not have mattered. The Q on the turn looks as safe as can be, so you'd feel good about pushing all in here anyway. |
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feloniusfish
High Card
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| I guess I'm a bit tighter. You flopped the smallest str8 possible which, in my experience, is poison in omaha unless you have some other draw to the nuts. You could have been drawing dead v. 58xx and behind someone with a monster wrap and flush draw or set. If no one had bet the flop, then maybe your ok...but a pot sized bet and a raise in front while holding the ass end of a small str8 gets me off the hand quick. If they are bluffing, well I'll catch 'em with the nuts eventually. Better to take the hicky on the preflop $7 bet and bust 'em with the nuts when they try that again. |
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Hoyle_Funson
High Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
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I suppose everyone else already covered this topic, but I would have to base a lot of this on reads. If you pegged one guy on aces then I would say play it the way you did (minus the preflop call I suppose). Your odds are too good with an aces guy mixed up.
If you are playing some good players who don't always reraise preflop with just aces (maybe they have a double pair or double suited connector), and they aren't likely to throw money around post-flop, then I might play it more carefully due to the 5-8 (or high straight draw) and definitely the flush vs. trips vs. you possibility. In either case (or since both could be the case), I am not sure I'd feel all that great about the hand to be able to go all in.
You also have to decide what kind of bankroll you are willing to risk for a hand. If you think you can beat the table and don't want to gamble with that much (maybe you don't have enough to rebuy, etc) then it's okay to wait for the nuts or just a better spot.
Hope this helps, good luck! |
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danny1810
High Card
Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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let me guess
your new to omaha? |
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wwcd5215
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 1685
Location: Zona
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| danny1810 wrote: |
let me guess
your new to omaha? |
Let Me Guess? you didnt read the HH carefully |
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Freestyling
High Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
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only point in question is the preflop raise....other than that....good gamble...otherwise,.....lay down and give up?????....gotta dance like that now and then.....  |
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sixandfour
Royal Flush
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 550
Location: Far from home
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| I think the worst thing here was calling the reraise PF. As played, I can see a fold, with the second nuts on a drawy board and 2 opponents going nowhere. There's very few safe cards here and you have to fade 2 of them. |
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