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Honest_Rob

...and I have one of his upcard and another is dead. Aces in the hole? At least one Ace?

Full Tilt Poker Game #4729570403: Table Old Time - $1/$2 Ante $0.20 - Limit Stud Hi - 0:05:17 ET - 2008/01/04
Seat 1: Thunder E ($60.20)
Seat 2: Honest_Rob ($39.30)
Seat 3: muckingmistake ($46.20)
Seat 4: givemeurstax ($37.45)
Seat 5: smk102 ($55.95)
Seat 6: KGB1021 ($16.25)
Seat 7: OneOutWinner ($52.15)
Seat 8: microzeke ($99.70)
OneOutWinner antes $0.20
smk102 antes $0.20
Thunder E antes $0.20
muckingmistake antes $0.20
givemeurstax antes $0.20
Honest_Rob antes $0.20
microzeke antes $0.20
KGB1021 antes $0.20
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to givemeurstax [2d]
Dealt to smk102 [8h]
Dealt to KGB1021 [2s]
Dealt to OneOutWinner [6d]
Dealt to microzeke [7s]
Dealt to Thunder E [Qs]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2h Kd] [Ks]
Dealt to muckingmistake [Qh]
givemeurstax is low with [2d]
givemeurstax completes it to $1
smk102 folds
KGB1021 folds
OneOutWinner folds
microzeke folds
Thunder E raises to $2
Honest_Rob raises to $3
muckingmistake folds
givemeurstax raises to $4
Thunder E folds
Honest_Rob calls $1
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to givemeurstax [2d] [8s]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2h Kd Ks] [Qc]
Honest_Rob checks
givemeurstax bets $1
Honest_Rob calls $1
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to givemeurstax [2d 8s] [Ac]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2h Kd Ks Qc] [8c]
givemeurstax bets $2
Honest_Rob

Strasse · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:09 am Post subject:

I call down just to see what donk was doing, and then call him a donk no matter what he has, win or lose, because he brought in for a completion.

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4115 Location: ROK

Well you know he's dumb because of his bring in, but you have to call him down just to see how dumb he is. I'd bet on QQ, AK or AA.

HuJwang · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:00 am Post subject:

I don't know much about stud, but why not raise 4th street? You're only behind aces, and 88, and one of the 8's is dead. I'd assume it's more likely that he's a fish overplaying some random hand, than he has aces every time.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject:

Well I guess I should add that I'd been playing with him for a while and he seemed a solid enough player then out of nowhere he just brings in for a completion. It just smelled fishy. I think he was trying to look like a donk with buried AA so when the Ace hit on 5th I folded. Can't imagine I'm ahead here and It's pretty obvious from my play so far that I have split Kings.

I didn't raise 4th because he confused me and it smelled fishy. Seemed like a weird play with a big hand. Not sure though.

Strasse · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject:

Yeah, you are probably behind, but if he's fishy enough to bring in for a completion, its certainly possible that he's fishy enough to do it w/ a hand you can beat. Plus, its worth it to get the information of whether or not he's fishy enough to continue betting into you when its obvious that you have a hand that beats his.

P.S. I've seen ppl do that move w/ a 3 flush, as stupid as it sounds.

spike420211 · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject:

Strasse · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject:

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4115 Location: ROK

The only time it's a good idea to bring in for a completion is when you're shortstacked in a tournament and you have a hand you're ready to go all the way with. Any other time it is an incorrect and very -ev play.

spike420211 · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject:

i still only play my flushes if no more that 2 cards of my suit are out.
but my holecards better be overcards to the board in order for me to complete as the bring-in.[i.e. QA with nothing higher than a jack out]. I bail for sure on 4th or 5th if:

1. my flush doesnt develop
2. one of my overcards doesn't pair,

or
3. i'm looking at a scary board, and either that board or another opponent
starts pounding awayon 4th or 5th

always wondered tho... i was always taught that 2 overcards to the board
was always meant as a completion bet... but i've felt this move attracted too
much action on 3rd when i had a low card out.

any thoughts?

Strasse · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject:

The hand is worth playing, but don't bring in for a completion, its just a moronic play. Slick is right, but if you just remember "NEVER BRING IN FOR A COMPLETION" you will be ok, as not bringing in for a completion in the rare instance that it is correct is barely wrong, while doing it when you shouldn't is hugely -EV.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject:

As long as we're on the subject let me throw out the notion that bringing in for a completion might be +EV at a cash table if it gives you the appearance of a donk which you can then exploit. Discuss....

Strasse · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject:

spike420211 · Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:59 am Post subject:

thx strasse...
just read perry friedmans article 2nite in this section.
makes sense 2me.
just that i'm so used to seeing bring-in completions in stud/8.

dumwaldo · Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:35 am Post subject:

#1 I would have to figure the villain for buried aces here but I still think I would call to the river to see what he had and then I would copy the HH to his player notes.

#2 It is NEVER a good idea to bring in for completion. If someone thinks their bring in hand is really that good then it will be more +EV to bring in and reraise if it gets completed. If it does not get completed then your opponents need cards to catch up before they would call anyway and a bet on 4th instead of 3rd street aggression looks less suspicious and can get paid off more frequently.

#3 What Rob did on 5th is not entirely relevant to the discussion and I think it would be more beneficial to the discussion if he rest of this hand history NEVER gets posted. The result will only complicate the discussion by giving the apperance that one course of action was 'right'. I do not think this is a situation that has any single right course of action.

I think equal arguments could be made for folding, calling or even raising. It is one of those situations that really demands every last trace information possible because these are the decisions that make the difference between a good player and a great one.

Peace,
dumwaldo

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