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AllInDrawinDead
Royal Flush
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 599
Location: San Diego, CA
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 Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: what's wrong with the game |
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| I think that people who think that they're pros playing $3/6 limit are ruining the game. It doesn't matter how good you are at small limit games, you're not good enough to be a pro and unless you get some money to move up you never will be. No one wins every time and everyone loses to bad luck so learn to deal with it if you ever want to become a pro. When you're at the table try to relax and have a good time because that's what these small stakes games are for. |
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fire_eyes_2k
The Burn Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3453
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm really struggling to see the point of the post. I can tell it's a moan but I don't actually know what you're moaning about. Is it all 3/6 players you don't like who tread the line between highly profitable recreational players and those who are struggling pros or is it the ones that talk trash like you get at every level?
Also, I can think of at least 3 players on stars who play 3/6 LHE who are pros. And a lot of the rest of the online 3/6 crowd are also highly proficient rec. players. There's one guy who I won't name that plays 10-20 down to 2-4 who reckons there ain't much of a difference in the standard of play through the levels he plays, just larger bankrolls. |
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mathman1115
Wizard of Odderation
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 3073
Location: Land of the Fightin' Phillies
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: what's wrong with the game |
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| AllInDrawinDead wrote: |
| I think that people who think that they're pros playing $3/6 limit are ruining the game. It doesn't matter how good you are at small limit games, you're not good enough to be a pro and unless you get some money to move up you never will be. No one wins every time and everyone loses to bad luck so learn to deal with it if you ever want to become a pro. When you're at the table try to relax and have a good time because that's what these small stakes games are for. |
A player who plays low stakes holdem can usually designate him/herself as a pro based on how much they play, not necessarily how good they are. The fact is, you have to be good, and there are tons of good players playing the low stakes both recreationally and constantly. But a "pro" 3/6 player is probably multitabling and playing several hours a day so that variance does not have a chance to hurt them too much, at least not over a long period of time.
I mean, suppose a 3/6 "pro" player plays 4 tables at a time for an average of 8 hours a day. Thats 70 (hands per hour) x 8 (hours per day) x 4 (tables per day) = appx. 2240 hands per day. Now, if he can average a minimum of 1 big bet per 100 hands (which is the minimum you aim for to play exclusively at a certain limit), he is winning 22.4 big bets per day, or 22.4 x $6 = $134.40. This is certainly not a living, but a pro poker player does not necessarily play poker for his sole source of income.
What defines a pro is consistency. If, each month he plays, he shows a profit of at least 1 big bet per 100 hands, he could consider himself a pro. The stakes are irrelevent in my opinion. There could easily be some pros at the .25/.50 level who make consistent profits. That doesn't mean they are poker pros in general, but they are pros at that level.
When you say that those who think they are"pros" at the 3/6 level are ruining the game, i don't know what you mean. It appears you are saying that good players at this level ruin the game by winning and taking bad players money. Well guess what, there are thousands of players playing to do the same thing. And those that are good enough to do it consistently, good for them. I promise you that even those who play for fun still want to win and take other peoples money. It is what the game of poker is based on. Yes, we have the thrill of victory to motivate us, and the feeling of accomplishment, and the rush of playing itself, but those that play poker that say they don't do it for the money are lying, at least a little bit.
If good players taking your money gives you a feeling of "ruin" to the game, then poker probably isn't for you. |
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ridic x
Straight Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 485
Location: At your tables stealin your moneyz
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Not only do pros who play 2/4, 3/6 ect. multi-table but they get rake-back. So really they could play simply break-even poker and still make a decent amount. While making a living at 2/4 is unrealistic live, online 4 tabling or more with rake-back it's a reality. Not to mention most of the good players make 5-7 BB's per 100 hands.
As for moving up in limits, if they can consistently beat say 3/6 for those 5-7 bets per 100 hands, why move up to a bigger game with presumably better players? Although from my experiences 1/2 up to 5/10 isn't really all that different. The only thing I found was the aggression takes a step up. So you will see iso bets and free card plays much more often as well as people playing marginal hands much more aggressively (mid pair, small PP's, even ace high) |
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fire_eyes_2k
The Burn Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3453
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ridic x wrote: |
| Although from my experiences 1/2 up to 5/10 isn't really all that different. The only thing I found was the aggression takes a step up. So you will see iso bets and free card plays much more often as well as people playing marginal hands much more aggressively (mid pair, small PP's, even ace high) |
This is where all the money is won and lost though. Getting maximum value (particularly on the river) is in my mind the absoloute must for any player who wants to be a winner. I don't agree with the 5-7BB/100 for full tables. It's probably possible for 6max and even higher for HU tables, but at 9 or 10-max I'd be surprised if anyone can exceed 3.5.
How often do you play 5/10 ridic? I've only got about 3k hands logged from stars, but I think the play is worse at that level than 3/6. |
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Rob123xyz
High Card
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a feeling not all pro's fit the image of Daniel Negraneau or Phil Ivey. I'll bet many (if not most) are just scraping by on a small bankroll, just a step ahead of having to give up the "glamorous" life of being a poker pro to wait on tables. Phil Gordon compares playing the low limit tables for a living to "working a salt mine". But I'll bet plenty of "pros" on their way up or down play 3/6 tables. |
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