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sockerkid008 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 1175

oh jeez was this a limit tournament? I just realized im in the fixed limit forum. If it was limit then everything i said doesnt matter

fire_eyes_2k · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:58 am Post subject:

bigwheell · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject:

No more conversation on this topic?

I was starting to get excited that we were going to talk about actually playing Limit Hold Em.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8141 Location: Sweden

I have to say that I completely forgot about the other players in the pot on the turn when he didn't mention what they did. Even with other players in I don't think I like a 3bet, but there are definitely some advantages to it in that spot.

fire_eyes_2k · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject:

bigwheell · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject:

Maybe my thinking is flawed, but I am for pushing the drawing hands out with a 3 bet so that you do not let them draw out on you.

HuJwang · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject:

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8141 Location: Sweden

AllInDrawinDead · Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject:

I don't see any point at all in three betting. Does anyone seriously think this guy is trying to semi-bluff with 4 other players in the pot? This player is raising for value.

ridic x · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:30 am Post subject:

Checking the turn would be LOL funny. So the guy had a 7 and caught trips but instead of trying to thin the field on the turn you'd rather let all the other people who could have any number of hands see a free card when the bets are doubled and you could realistically push over cards, or a mid PP out, you know the flush draw and any other over-pairs are coming anyway. Honestly on the flop, with the flush draw, this many people, and only holding JJ there is no reason to bet, a flop bet isn't big enough to push anyone out and it simply builds a bigger pot for them to call on the turn with just about anything. Because there are so many people in the pot it's not worth getting "value" by betting the flop because the number of people in the hand have a combined draw that has you crushed, however on the turn, despite the board pairing if it would once again check to you, it's an easy call to raise there. Even betting the flop it's still an easy call to bet out there. So you get raised, it's one bet to win how many? Yes the odds of you catching another jack are not good enough to call but I'm assuming you're talking low stakes limit here (.25-.50 up to 1-2) and guess what. At these limits you still have a pretty good chance that you have the best hand with your JJ so you may not need the J to win. It's an easy move to call the check-raise if it's only one bet. Now if you had gotten check/raised and then that guy got 3 bet, you have an easy fold, as it was I most likely call the check/raise and see that river, which I would call one bet on. It's debatable whether calling the river bet is spewing however as I said in low stakes games there is an average that you still have the best hand of around 35-40% with just your JJ not to mention if you catch another J and he does have trips or he flopped a set you get paid big on the river.

robpsman · High Card Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

The prior arguments for three betting or folding to a check-raise depends completely on how the check-raiser plays. If he is at all capable of making such a semi bluff, then three-betting is correct. This is a big pot, and it needs to be protected. Furthermore, checking with the logic that calling on the river would be superior to betting on the turn, in order to get a show down, seems to passive for such a big pot. With the combined likelihood of someone having a seven, and/or someone making a play, the risk taken at this point in the hand of one bet is wise because of the size of the pot. This is due to gut shots and Q,K, or A draws, your hand being vulnerable to, needs to be protected. Now, more than likely you can fold to a check-raise, the only way you can't is if this is one of the afforementioned tricky players, but again this risk is worth taking to protect the pot, and in most cases you will lose the same one bet. In conclusion, betting the turn is correct.

T_Rumble · Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject:

I'm going to disagree with everything that ridic said. There is no way that the guy check raises the preflop raiser with anything less than a full house or at the very least trip 7s. The "statistics" of 35-40% of having the best hand in this spot are made up at best. With that many people in the pot I would have checked the turn then folded to a bet on the river unless I improved. The only time I would consider making a crying call on the river if I hadn't improved is if we were heads up, meaning there wasn't a caller between him and me and theres no one else left to act after me. Because we don't have the HH thats something we can't tell would have happened in this case.

Your raise preflop is good, you're not doing it to clear the field, your doing it for value on the fact that your hand is probably best and in the long run this will be a +ev play.

The only reason I would consider three betting the turn is to define my hand. You're not three betting to fold out any draws or the super remote extremely unlikely chance that someone has played AA-QQ as weakly as possible. The check raiser has represented the 7 and by three betting you're seeing if they cap the turn which gives you the easy fold.

You want to be able to put yourself in positions of making easy decisions. Guessing on what to do leads to mistakes which lead to lost profit. By checking the turn and possibly making a crying call on the river you don't put yourself in a position of guessing for more bets than you'd like.

Hope this helps......T_Rumble

above_films · Full House Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 153

i agree. u definitely shoulda checked the turn. another option was to pump it once u got raised on the turn to see where you were at. he coulda been repping trips with his raise on the turn. lucky u got to see the 7 cause he coulda mucked after u folded. worse, he coulda showed you something like K 3 off suit and smirked at your fold.

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