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BOYNAMEDSUE

Use this thread to discuss or review various poker media.

griffinlord · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject:

But it is important to use those tools correctly.

If you read your poker book as if it were a novel, that is you don't really process the information presented, you will learn little or nothing.

An effective approach for studying from books (poker books or school books) is to:

1. Read a chapter (or entire book if short) to get a general sense of the topics being covered and how those topics are organized.

2. Practice (poker)/attend lecture (school).

3. Return to the book and re-read one section at a time taking as much time as required to process the information.

4. Practice implementing what you learned in #3.

5. Return to step #3.

If you are already an intermediate player you can skip steps #1 and #2 and jump straight to a modified #3:

#3 Read lightly until you encounter information that is new or covers an area where you are weak--then read that section/chapter carefully.

#4 and #5 as before.

Many players do not bother to read the books with any care or effort put into processing the information contained. If you read a book without actually processing the information it contains, you'll learn very little--if you learn anything at all.

For those of us who do not have a live mentor watching DVDs (and some shows) can provide a valuable illustration of how principles are implemented.

smokindog · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject:

Good post Griff! I feel I am at a point where I should go to modified 3. Smile

BOYNAMEDSUE · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject:

Yeah, excellent post.

Riddim · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject:

That approach doesn't seem to work for me. I usually just read the whole thing straight through, thinking about new things I find while I read and during times when I'm not reading. When I'm done I'll usually start seeing spots to apply the new stuff that I've learned while playing. Then after a while I'll re-read the book and some of the other things will start entering my thought process while I play as well. Also, I find that I often do best when I read a book about a game that I'm not currently playing, and then start playing the game again after the new information has been doing it's job in my subconcious for a while.

Muskogee Mike · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject:

This is from another thread where someone was asking about good poker books. Since I posted this, I have viewed Lederer's DVD I mention at the end. I have also ordered and watched his first DVD. I'll update this post soon with my reviews of those. I've also read Johnny Chan's book on Limit HE, and I'll update with that as well. Eventually I'll get around to Harrington's books and others.

Good Starters
These are books that are good to start with. They aren't too advanced, and clearly explain basic strategies and concepts. If you are new to poker or new to the idea of poker strategy, this is where to begin.

Poker: The Real Deal by Phil Gordon
This was the first poker book I read. Phil does a good job of explaining some basic concepts and strategies, e.g, Pot-odds, Pre-flop betting, bluffs, etc. Phil has a great conversational style, so it feels like you're actually sitting down and having a conversation with him. The "tests" he includes at the end of the chapters are good practice.

Expert Insight: Final Table Poker with Phil Gordon (DVD)
This is a great video that puts you inside the mind of Phil Gordon at the final table of a major poker tournament. Phil explains what he's doing and why during every hand. The DVD also features two tracks: a Beginners track and and Advanced track.

Must Reads
These are books you just have to read if you want to be considered an "educated" poker player. Many of them are considered classics in the poker world. These books present more advanced concepts, but won't make your brain hurt.

Super/System 1 & Super/System 2 by Doyle Brunson
These are must reads because they are classics, but also because of the wealth of information on several different games presented by several of the top players in the world. You get strategy on NL Hold 'em, Limit Hold'em, Omaha Hi, Omaha Hi/Lo Split, Seven Card Stud, Triple Draw, and Razz. And you get it from Daniel Negreanu, Jennifer Harmon, Todd Brunson, Mike Caro, Lyle Berman, and, of course, Doyle Brunson.

Caro's Book of Poker Tells by Mike Caro
Another poker classic. If you play live games at all, you need to read this book. Caro shows you a ton of different tells you will encounter at the tables and explains what they actually "tell." Each tell is presented with pictures and detailed descriptions. Not only do you learn what your opponents are "telling" you, but it makes you aware of what you might be "telling" them.

Phil Gordon's Little Green Book by Phil Gordon
This was one of the next books I read after Phil's first book. This is soon to become a classic. Phil takes some advanced concepts and explains them in such a way that doesn't make your brain hurt (at least not as much as Sklansky). You've got to read this book, which is why it's under this section.

Advanced Read
These books are usually not easy reads, but contain some of the best information out there. These books need to be read after reading the other books that have been listed, and, even then, you must make sure that you understand the concepts presented in those books. If you start out with these books, you will just confuse yourself and end up a worse poker player.

The Theory of Poker by David Sklansky
This should be the first Advanced book you read. David Sklansky is the leader in poker theory. His concepts are genius, which makes it difficult to get your feeble mind around them. He doesn't always explain things clearly, so you will probably have to read some sections two or three times before you understand. But believe me, it is well worth it.

No Limit Hold 'Em Theory and Practice by David Sklansky and Ed Miller
This is Sklansky's newest work. It is great. More concepts and more strategies. And, of course, more math. After reading this (and understanding it), you will have some of the best in poker theory at your disposal. Use it wisely.

The Psychology of Poker by Alan N. Schoonmaker
Schoonmaker presents an often overlooked and misunderstood part of the game: psychology. There are countless books, articles, and videos on the math part of the game, but this is the only book I know of that really tackles the psychology part. Sure, different players explain some of their thoughts on the psychology of poker, but they all lack the credentials that Schoonmaker has. He has a Ph.D. in Industrial Psychology. He is also a lover of the game. This is not a quick read. It's as much about understanding yourself and your motivations as it is understanding your opponent. But this book will give you the skills you need to fight the psychological battle in poker.

Other Great Reads
These are books that you should read after working your way through the others.

Phil Gordon's Little Blue Book by Phil Gordon
This is a great companion to Phil's other two books (in fact, you can actually buy all three as a boxed set). This book is a collection of Phil's hand histories from cash games, tournaments, and even online sit-n-gos. Phil explains his strategies and what he was thinking and why. It's a really neat concept for a poker book, and I highly recommend it.

Phil Hellmuth Presents Read 'Em and Reap: A Career FBI Agent's Guide to Decoding Poker Tells by Joe Navarro
Let me just say that this book is amazing. Navarro is a former FBI agent who was nicknamed "The Human Lie Detector." He is now using his skills in the poker arena. He does poker seminars all over the country, and has worked one-on-one with poker pros like Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke. Navarro is a leading authority on body language and behavior and uses that knowledge to help you spot and decipher tells at the poker table. And believe me, it works!
I tried what I had learned on my girlfriend. She drew a card from the deck, then she showed me the top card from the deck. I began to ask her questions and verbalize my thoughts. She never answered me audibly, yet I was able to nail her card--ten of clubs!

I have also used these skills successfully at the casino and in home games. I was able to spot bluffs and move all-in when I knew they couldn't call. I was also able to save money when I knew I was beat. Pocket 10's look pretty good on a 9-6-2 flop. Fortunately, my opponent's behavior told me he had flopped a set!

This is a must read book for anyone who plays live. However, understand that you will still need to have a good understanding of poker strategy. So read this book after you have read some of the other "must reads."

Don't Reads
This is pretty self-explanatory. Save your money, and buy a different book.

The Best Hand I Ever Played by Steve Rosenbloom
This book is somewhat similar to Phil Gordon's Little Blue Book in that it is basically a collection of different Hand Histories, but it differs in that, well, it's just not that good. Different poker pros recount the best hand they've played, which is sometimes interesting. However, most of the time the details of the hand are kind of sketchy, and the advice given just isn't all that good. If you are just looking for an entertaining read about poker, go ahead and read this book. But if you're looking for advice on poker strategy, save your money and your time.

Well, that's all I've got so far. I hope that helps. I just got Howard Lederer's More Secrets of No-Limit Hold'em in the mail yesterday. I'll see how it is and let you know. And, I'll be doing more reading. Not sure what book to get next. Haven't read any of Harrington's books, so I may start there.

fluffyqueen · Message Board Junkie Joined: 14 Feb 2007 Posts: 1268

Yes I think they absolutely help. I had no clue about poker(I still am green in my eyes) but after reading and watching it on television I am much better, much much better than when I first began. I think I learn something new every day reading here.

UFO1947 · Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:07 am Post subject:

I said Yes, but experience helps more

mzbuns · Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:27 am Post subject:

Yes was my answer and I love your post Griff. I'll read a book, play some and most times fail to go back and read it or part of it again............so, I started doing that. I find myself saying "oh yeah" forgot about that Smile

IMO, rereading is a huge tool in picking up on changes in play and insight on what I did right/wrong.

renegades8 · Forum Fish Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 3327

Muskogee Mike, you should add all three of the "Harrington on Hold'em" books. If you haven't personally read them, maybe someone else could and provide information on what they thought about it.

renegades8 · Forum Fish Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 3327

Also, I found the books "Killer Poker Online" and "Killer Poker Online 2" excellent books for specifically online poker. They talk about everything from data management to mood management to mind management, not only basic strategy.

spike420211 · Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject:

acesfullokings9 · Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject:

HoH are an absolute must for any beginning player as they have a wealth of information presented in an easy to digest format that even the most clueless player can understand if they really want to learn.

Of course books aren't the be all and end all, you need to find a way to take the knowledge from the books you have read and recognise the right situations at the table to apply the right advice to each situation. Anyone who reads a book and expects to instantly be a world beater is kidding themselves. Knowledge combined with experience is what gets you to be a winning player.

Also post HH's of tough hands on forums where you respect the advice being given. Even if someone says something you don't agree with, their post may open your mind to an aspect of the game you hadn't considered yet.

Shaky_Hand · Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject:

Read people for not only their physical tells but also the playing of their hands. Daniel Neg. DVD seems to be very good. Most of the dvd's for sale are all basic.

Someone needs to make a dvd the way they write books.....more detailed ways to win and not just simple rules on how the game is played and what the description of ranking hands are.

orracle922 · High Card Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 14

ive read sklasky's thoery of poker and it was great but his examples are heavily based on limit games where bet sizes, pot sizes, and odds are easily predicted. i was wondering if his 'No limit Holdem Theory and Practice' was a good extension of these concepts specifically into NLHE?

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