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Zophar · Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:00 pm Post subject:

It was a solid call, especially if his chip stack was "healthy". Pot odds aren't meant to be the concrete rule of play, but this situation was a perfect example of an appropriate time to use them to dictate play Smile

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Kei · Two Pair Joined: 28 Aug 2005 Posts: 69

Lividlemur · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:30 am Post subject:

What were the antes and blinds? Am I the only one who recognizes that the antes change the pot odds?

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4177

Lividlemur · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject:

Your're right about him having the correct pot odds to call already. However, the antes very important in pot-odds calls and should be a given when presenting these situations - changes the odds dramatically, in this case more so than u might think

At this stage of a tourney, knocking another out of a tourney isnt as important imo. In fact, a bigger stack wants more small stacks near the bubble as there are more people to push around (in general) and pick up chips for the final run. Depends how close the caller is to the bubble, obviously

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4177

You're right, livid - antes are often overlooked when people tell us where in the tourny they are, and should be given along with the other relevant information. I disagree, however, that knocking people out is unimportant at this point - this is the most important time of all to knock them out! The thing with NL, is that even the chip leader 3 away from the money can end up being out of the tourny in just a few bad hands. You want to get yourself past the bubble, and earn chips at the same time. Granted, this is more important later on, when the money differences between spots are much greater, but the bubble also, I think. Why keep a short stack to push around when you can just knock him out and take all his chips now?

Lividlemur · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:55 pm Post subject:

I agree, well sorta Smile

. I would definitely want to knock a shortstack out if I had a good hand (at least where I wasn't most likely behind). Since shortstacks are going to make desperate stabs, I'd prefer to wait for AQ or a pp or so to be calling them. Otherwise, I'd just prefer to steal their blinds and antes. A big stack has no business getting knocked out at the bubble anyway. If they do, then it's probably from making lame loose calls when pot odds do not warrant and/or that they are just poor players who got lucky to get their stack and were going to lose it anyway

A key moment in a tournament is the bubble, obviously, for all parties. My opinion is that is in the best interests of a big stack to keep all the little scared stacks around and take advantage. I guess we just disagree here. Not much point of a big stack making loose calls and bleed chips when she/he's gonna need every one for a charge at the final table.

Now I'm curious what the pro's think, not that they'd answer Shocked

for kicks, i found this at twoplustwo forum that discusses it in a way:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=3809184&page=&vc=1

JetsFan28 · Royal Flush Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 799 Location: NY

i agree w/ funkay flex

Gliewe · Pair Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 37 Location: Clearwater FL

This shouldnt even qualify as a bad beat, its nothing. The only reason it is bad is because you were on the bubble, and real close to the 10 grand.

Bordeaux · High Card Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 1

who wouldn't call with ANY two hole cards in that situation? bells SHOULD have started going off in this guys head when his stack got down to 10x the BB..... THAT'S when you start making short-stack moves -- when your move can HURT an opponent if they call if crap like 10-2o

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