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ambitious207
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2130
Location: Maine
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 Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: PLO HU Hand analysis |
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I had only played a few hands with this guy. The first hand we played I flopped a monster draw and he called me down with 2 pair on a super scary board after I turned the second nuts.
Full Tilt Poker Game #1664623110: Table Siena (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - Pot Limit Omaha - 8:08:38 ET - 2007/01/24
Seat 3: ambitious207 ($62.25)
Seat 4: nhodge ($37.20)
nhodge posts the small blind of $0.25
ambitious207 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [As 2s Qh 2c]
nhodge calls $0.25
ambitious207 checks
*** FLOP *** [9h 4d 2h]
ambitious207 bets $1
nhodge raises to $4
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: |
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He is showing strength and the only thing I can see him raising with that you're really beating is 94. However if he has 94 with the flush draw he's ahead to your set. He may be ahead if he has 94 with the straight draw too, I didn't check.
If you call here, you have the problem of position. You've got to figure out what you want to do with the hand if one of a million scare cards comes out and he bets at it to your check.
I'd say if he's that willing to call you down with garbage from an earlier read, it'd be +EV to wait for a better situation. So I'm good with a fold in this case. If that's not an option, call here and fire at pretty much any scare card to see how he reacts. |
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ambitious207
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Kloaked Spirit wrote: |
He is showing strength and the only thing I can see him raising with that you're really beating is 94. However if he has 94 with the flush draw he's ahead to your set. He may be ahead if he has 94 with the straight draw too, I didn't check.
If you call here, you have the problem of position. You've got to figure out what you want to do with the hand if one of a million scare cards comes out and he bets at it to your check.
I'd say if he's that willing to call you down with garbage from an earlier read, it'd be +EV to wait for a better situation. So I'm good with a fold in this case. If that's not an option, call here and fire at pretty much any scare card to see how he reacts. |
Would a pot sized bet for information be out of the question? |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Provided I'm calling the raise on the flop, yeah I'm going for a pot sized bet on that turn to almost any card (and especially a scare card.) |
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ambitious207
Message Board Junkie
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Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Kloaked Spirit wrote: |
| Provided I'm calling the raise on the flop, yeah I'm going for a pot sized bet on that turn to almost any card (and especially a scare card.) |
Sorry. I meant a pot sized reraise on the flop to figure out if I am behind 44 or 99. Would that be a bad play? Do I not want to load the pot up that early in the hand with a semi-strong hand that doesnt have any redraws? |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Here you'd want to exercise pot control. If you re-pot this, the pot will get bloated in a situation where you may have a "technically best hand" situation, but could easily be behind in the hand. As I said before, top 2 with flush draw is ahead to you right now.
Sure if he re-raises you're done for, but what if he calls? At that point the next bet will put him all in, and you still don't know what type of card he's looking for, so you may have him take a stab at the pot on a pure bluff and still be forced to pay him off. Call the flop, fire at the turn, and you'll still have invested the same amount of money as raising the flop, but can easily get out on the turn should he now make whatever hand he was going for.
Plus, given the read there's not a lot that I feel this guy is really folding at this point. So there's a whole bunch of crap that you're behind to, one hand you're ahead of that's doing this, and you're against a bad player by your own reads. Skip the marginal hands and just beat him to death later on.
P.S. I despise bottom set for situations just like this. |
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ambitious207
Message Board Junkie
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Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Kloaked Spirit wrote: |
Here you'd want to exercise pot control. If you re-pot this, the pot will get bloated in a situation where you may have a "technically best hand" situation, but could easily be behind in the hand. As I said before, top 2 with flush draw is ahead to you right now.
Sure if he re-raises you're done for, but what if he calls? At that point the next bet will put him all in, and you still don't know what type of card he's looking for, so you may have him take a stab at the pot on a pure bluff and still be forced to pay him off. Call the flop, fire at the turn, and you'll still have invested the same amount of money as raising the flop, but can easily get out on the turn should he now make whatever hand he was going for.
Plus, given the read there's not a lot that I feel this guy is really folding at this point. So there's a whole bunch of crap that you're behind to, one hand you're ahead of that's doing this, and you're against a bad player by your own reads. Skip the marginal hands and just beat him to death later on.
P.S. I despise bottom set for situations just like this. |
Thank you very much for the analysis. I guess I need to lose the NL mentality when it comes to trying to get all of my money in when I am sure I have the best of it on the flop. As you may suspect I did reraise the pot here. My opponent made a terrible call, and then a really terrible call on the turn and I ended up taking it on the chin.
ambitious207 raises to $13
nhodge calls $9
*** TURN *** [9h 4d 2h] [3c]
ambitious207 bets $27
nhodge calls $23.70, and is all in
ambitious207 shows [As 2s Qh 2c]
nhodge shows [Qc 7h 6d Kh]
Uncalled bet of $3.30 returned to ambitious207
*** RIVER *** [9h 4d 2h 3c] [8h]
ambitious207 shows three of a kind, Twos
nhodge shows a flush, King high
nhodge wins the pot ($73.90) with a flush, King high
ambitious207 adds $20
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $74.40 | Rake $0.50
Board: [9h 4d 2h 3c 8h]
Seat 3: ambitious207 (big blind) showed [As 2s Qh 2c] and lost with three of a kind, Twos
Seat 4: nhodge (small blind) showed [Qc 7h 6d Kh] and won ($73.90) with a flush, King high |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I wouldn't have guessed that hand at all based on your previous read. I was thinking he probably had 2 pair plus some draw or some other way the hand was hit substantially.
Go ahead and get your money in with the best of it even when it's on the flop. Just be sure that you actually have the best of it though. It's like the situation where you could flop the nut straight and feel that it's best to fold given the action in front of you and the fact you have no redraws. You're going to be in a lot more 60/40 situations than you would in Hold'Em, so it's more crucial that you try to stay on the 60 side of that confrontation. |
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Flying_Kiwi
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Sometimes I think you could write a book on Omaha, Kloaked. I might even buy it. PS: Can you recommend any good books specific to Omaha? |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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There's not really a lot of fantastic literature that I've seen on it, but to be fair I haven't looked for any in a while. For beginners I'd probably suggest this:
http://www.pokerlistings.com/pot-limit-omaha
Read the advice on that website, and then read up on the Omaha section of SS2. Between the two, you should have a pretty good understanding of how Omaha works and some of the little differences that make it a much different game than Hold'Em.
Learn from my mistakes, and avoid TJ's book like the plague. It only preaches people to nutpeddle and little more. While that's fine for beginning play, you'll probably get slaughtered as you progress upward, and TJ acts like this advice will allow you to win the bigger games.
Then it becomes a case of posting hand histories here or at twoplustwo. I've heard of one other book out there that some said was good but I can't remember anything about it (the name/author/etc.) and I'm just drawing a blank on the information. |
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ambitious207
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2130
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Flying_Kiwi wrote: |
| Sometimes I think you could write a book on Omaha, Kloaked. I might even buy it. PS: Can you recommend any good books specific to Omaha? |
+123. All that I have read is the section in Play Poker like the Pros.
ps: tonight I made my first ever misclick. It just happened to be in a huge pot when I had nothing and was bluffing to a check/caller. The guy bet the pot ($30) on the river, and I went into "save face mode". I went to switch over to my browser to check the updated chipcounts for the WPT event and minraised to $60 with K high. The guy reraised me another $1.9 all in and I had to fold. |
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Flying_Kiwi
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Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: somewhere spacific
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ambitious207 wrote: |
| ps: tonight I made my first ever misclick. It just happened to be in a huge pot when I had nothing and was bluffing to a check/caller. The guy bet the pot ($30) on the river, and I went into "save face mode". I went to switch over to my browser to check the updated chipcounts for the WPT event and minraised to $60 with K high. The guy reraised me another $1.9 all in and I had to fold. |
With that much already in the pot I would've seriously considered calling the $1.90 just for the table image.
I have made similar misclick once, but nowhere near as costly. Had browser open and mouse hovering over something when table popped up just as I clicked. Ended up folding the best hand, when I was waiting for my turn call and slowplay. It was in a tourny and only ended up costing me 1/3 of my stack (from previous betting rounds). |
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ambitious207
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2130
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Flying_Kiwi wrote: |
| ambitious207 wrote: |
| ps: tonight I made my first ever misclick. It just happened to be in a huge pot when I had nothing and was bluffing to a check/caller. The guy bet the pot ($30) on the river, and I went into "save face mode". I went to switch over to my browser to check the updated chipcounts for the WPT event and minraised to $60 with K high. The guy reraised me another $1.9 all in and I had to fold. |
With that much already in the pot I would've seriously considered calling the $1.90 just for the table image.
I have made similar misclick once, but nowhere near as costly. Had browser open and mouse hovering over something when table popped up just as I clicked. Ended up folding the best hand, when I was waiting for my turn call and slowplay. It was in a tourny and only ended up costing me 1/3 of my stack (from previous betting rounds). |
Yes. The player that I was playing against didn't believe that I misclicked. I didn't really care what he thought too much. BTW, he showed the nuts when I folded (JJ on a JA2QJ board). I left the table (and my computer) after the hand. |
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