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Myrmidon73
Straight
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 113
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 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: Post Flop Aggression |
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I've started to get into HORSE, and limit hold'em is by far my weakest game.
I know that in NL, you should be aggresive after the flop to be successful. However, I had some questions about limit.
Say the blinds are 100/200. You are in the SB. It folds over to you, and you call with a marginal hand (like 87o). BB checks.
The flop doesn't hit you, but it's not well-connected, and there isn't a flush draw on the board.
How often does stabbing at the pot usually work? One time, my LHO called me down every time, and another time, my LHO was very passive.
When you start playing against good players, do they tend to play more passively or loosely when you bet into them? Does being aggressive help in FL, or is it -EV in the long run? |
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ridic x
Straight Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 485
Location: At your tables stealin your moneyz
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Agression is the name of the game however holding a hand such as 78o you'd be better off saving half that bet and folding. However if you think your opponent can be moved off a hand I'd suggest a raise if you're going to play a hand like that anyway. Pretty much in a tournament with blinds 100/200 there's no need to get into a pissing contest with a hand such as this. |
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griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 2460
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I agree, if it is folded to you in the SB you are either trying for a blind steal and need to raise or you are trying to hit a monster which means check/fold or check/raise on the flop depending on whether you hit or miss the flop. Since you'll miss a lot more often than hit, and only get paid off rarely against one opponent in the BB the limp here isn't really worth it.
If BB has nothing the preflop raise will get them to fold either right there or to aggression on the flop. If BB has a hand (or catches one on the flop) you're going lose money here more often than not.
And if BB defends with anything you can't make any reasonable guesses about whether or not the flop hit him and have to fold to aggression.
Nope, don't like the limp here. Raise is better but still risky.
Now, if there are 4-5 limpers, then you are priced in and will probably get paid off if you hit a monster. And you'll likely know to fold if the flop misses you. |
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drtre1987
Forum Farmacist
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| no limit and limit are such different games. the best way to learn it is to read one of sklansky's books. for limit holdem i would recommend Holdem poker for advanced players. and in this situation you stated, i agree w/ everyone above. unless you know that the player in the big blind is so tight that he would fold every time he misses then it really isnt a profitable situation. |
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fire_eyes_2k
The Burn Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3541
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| drtre1987 wrote: |
| for limit holdem i would recommend Holdem poker for advanced players. |
I'm sorry but thats your worst post yet imo. You can't learn a game by starting with the advanced book. It's suicide. Start with Winning Low Limit Hold'Em by Lee Jones, it's the best book for making sure your thinking is generally correct and your head is screwed on the right way round. Then move onto Small Stakes Hold Em (Ed Miller) which is the limit hold em bible, and THEN once you've mastered everything there then you can move onto Holdem for advanced players.
As for the hand itself, I don't think 87o can really be considered a marginal hand, its got no high card strength and offsuit kills the flush draw. You're not going to flop top-pair very often so your only real chance is a straight or straight draw. Just fold it and wait for a better shot.
And yes, agression is the key to winning in LHE, but it has to be well timed agression. |
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drtre1987
Forum Farmacist
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
| I'm sorry but thats your worst post yet imo. |
i have made much worse believe me.(i know you'll agree). the small stakes holdem book by sklansky is really good too. its just that Holdem for adv. players covers all of the different plays that you need to know for limit holdem, including the basic concepts. since Myrmidon73 said he has played no limit before, he probably knows the basics of holdem. i was in the same situation a year ago (being a nolimit player and never played limit before), but holdem for adv. players worked fine for me. i havent read the other one you mentioned but im just more of a sklansky fan. |
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ridic x
Straight Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 485
Location: At your tables stealin your moneyz
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| drtre1987 wrote: |
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
| I'm sorry but thats your worst post yet imo. |
i have made much worse believe me.(i know you'll agree). the small stakes holdem book by sklansky is really good too. its just that Holdem for adv. players covers all of the different plays that you need to know for limit holdem, including the basic concepts. since Myrmidon73 said he has played no limit before, he probably knows the basics of holdem. i was in the same situation a year ago (being a nolimit player and never played limit before), but holdem for adv. players worked fine for me. i havent read the other one you mentioned but im just more of a sklansky fan. |
I played NL for about 4 years before starting with limit and I still learned a hell of a lot from SSHE def the starting point if someone is not comfortable with limit. You have to read it it about 3-4 times to get the full effect. It goest something like this
1st time reading : you clean up your PF play
2nd time : you start to understand the post-flop concepts
3rd time: you start to understand ways to extract more value on later streets
4th time : you can start to tweak your game a bit while still following the basic advice given in the book. |
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