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goomlah · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: Hand for analysis

Cash Ring at someone's house: .25-.50 blinds, and I get Dealt KJT6 with the king-jack of spades in the small blind. I know it's not the best hand here and if I wasn't in the blind I probably fold this. After 5 limps, I limp in getting goodness-knows-what-to-1 and the flop comes:

Th Ts Qs (3 Tens and a open-ended Royal flush draw). I bet the pot-2 callers. Turn's a Red 9 (giving me the straight). The pot's enough for me to push in with my last 15 bucks or so, and my thinking is no one has Q-T, which is about the only hand at that time that has me beat (I'm not putting anyone on a boat here-I thought they would have raised after the flop). Even if I thought someone could have a boat, I still got at least 2 outs in the deck (straight flush draw). Long story short, both players call, One had 9873 of spades (yeah, I know-donkey) the other had QT rag-rag (oh well-Turns out I had 4 outs after the flop-Any king and the Ace of Spades).

My basic question is this: Is there anyone that could have folded after that flop and after the betting on the flop?

drcossack · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:46 am Post subject:

Hrm.

On the flop, only QQ and QT have you beat.
On the turn, QQ, QT, KJ.

I certainly don't mind completing the SB with that many limpers, but on the flop, I recommend check/folding a multiway pot in that situation. Soneone's got the nuts, and it's not you.

I really should take my own advice, but:

Full Tilt Poker Game #1370890458: Table Carolina - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha - 22:51:32 ET - 2006/12/07
Seat 1: jason545 ($1.75)
Seat 2: piscator ($42.20)
Seat 3: drcossack ($5.45)
Seat 4: ultraDali ($3.80)
Seat 5: Only_the_nutz ($10.50)
Seat 6: Bodega ($8.90)
Seat 7: bluetawski ($8.20)
Seat 8: GamblnJonnyOK ($4)
Seat 9: floridaworm ($13.05)
Only_the_nutz posts the small blind of $0.05
Bodega posts the big blind of $0.10
GamblnJonnyOK posts $0.10
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to drcossack [7s Ac 2d Qc]
bluetawski folds
GamblnJonnyOK checks
floridaworm folds
jason545 calls $0.10
piscator calls $0.10
drcossack calls $0.10
ultraDali calls $0.10
Only_the_nutz calls $0.05
Bodega checks
*** FLOP *** [5c Qh Qs]
Only_the_nutz checks
Bodega checks
GamblnJonnyOK bets $0.10
jason545 folds
piscator folds
drcossack raises to $1
ultraDali folds
Only_the_nutz folds
Bodega folds
GamblnJonnyOK raises to $1.90
drcossack raises to $5.35, and is all in
GamblnJonnyOK calls $2, and is all in
drcossack shows [7s Ac 2d Qc]
GamblnJonnyOK shows [3d 5s Th Qd]
Uncalled bet of $1.45 returned to drcossack
*** TURN *** [5c Qh Qs] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [5c Qh Qs 5h] [Js]
drcossack shows three of a kind, Queens
GamblnJonnyOK shows a full house, Queens full of Fives
GamblnJonnyOK wins the pot ($7.65) with a full house, Queens full of Fives
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.50 | Rake $0.85
Board: [5c Qh Qs 5h Js]
Seat 1: jason545 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: piscator folded on the Flop
Seat 3: drcossack showed [7s Ac 2d Qc] and lost with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 4: ultraDali (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Only_the_nutz (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Bodega (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: bluetawski didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: GamblnJonnyOK showed [3d 5s Th Qd] and won ($7.65) with a full house, Queens full of Fives
Seat 9: floridaworm didn't bet (folded)

After talking it over with another forumer (Ninjah), he agreed there was nothing I could do there, and I realized that as the flop went nuts*. Ended up getting to $12 at that table, but Only_The_Nutz ended up stacking me w/AK when he rivered 2 pair on me. A4 sooooooooooooooted = the nuts?

*I mean, I kinda had the feeling he had Q5, but what are the chances he has the ONLY hand that beats me?

goomlah · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: hmmmm

I have KJT6 if you didn't notice (that means I have the nut straight on the turn)-If you meant 99 or 9T that's a different issue on the turn, but like I said I didn't put anyone with QT on the flop after I thinned the field. MAYBE QQ, but that was it. No one would call there with 99JK on the flop unless they had the straight flush draw like I did, and that couldn't happen cause I had it. The worst thing was the river was a JACK, giving me what I thought would be the 2nd best possible hand (like I said-I can't put anyone on QQ, QT, or JJ in that situation). The person who won the hand just sat down just came into the table so I had absolutely no clue as to what he was doing, so that helped a lot, lol. The other was a loose cannon who just wanted a good time and had no outs on the flop (since I had his gutshot).

Your hand was a different scenario. There were not as many people in the pot, but that's the story of Omaha I guess. At least someone told me I could fold on the flop, but I'm not sure at my level in Omaha I could have.

DJ Ninjah · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject:

Ok, truth of the matter is there really is nothing you can do. Trips is THE HARDEST hand to play in Omaha. You can play them passively, and lose when people draw out on you, are you can play them aggressively to shut them out, and lose on those rare occasions someone else flops the boat. Note, I tend to play more passively if my kicker is small, and more agressively when my kicker is big, especially if all three of my kickers are big (better odds that if I'm beat now, I can hit a bigger boat) Problem is, people limp EVERYTHING in Omaha, so all hands are possible. I don't care what Cloutier says, raising PF is VERY important in Omaha.

Very specifically about your hand, you had most of the draws covered, so I think you can play it a little softerer since you don't have the absolute nuts.

laikos · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Hand for analysis

clussman · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:

I don't mind betting your set on the flop. There is a chance the hand is good and you'll take the pot down right there. Since nobody raised you, no, you did not have a chance to fold on the flop (at least not after your bet). I also wouldn't have minded checking the flop. It's always dangerous when your set involves a pair on the board and you're in a six way pot. I think it's okay here to see if someone else wants to bet.

I disagree with slowplaying anything in Omaha. Most of my losses are from boat over boat. Why would I give someone with AT or KT a chance to draw out on me? I would have re-raised you on the flop with QT to try and take the pot down right then and there. That said, with two callers on the flop I'm slowing waay down. You can be pretty sure that someone has the 4th queen.

goomlah · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: OK

Seems like I should have at least slowed down after the flop-I had absolutely no read on anyone as that I've never played with any of them, but I was always told you raise when you have the boat and not let anyone catch up. I had a king and an open ended straight-flush to give me more outs then I guess I thought I had. Guess an omaha newbie screwed up-no biggy.

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